Saturday, November 17, 2007

The Land Gobblers

This Tuesday, November 20, at 7 p.m. at Stanley Elementary School, the Board of Supervisors will vote on the issue of purchasing the land for the new County Office Building/Government Complex. This is the land that is offered at $66,000 an acre. An explanation of the rationale behind the purchase of the land and the complex building can be found on the county website at http://www.pagecounty.virginia.gov/ Go to Our Government, and then at the bottom left you will see a menu heading for FAQs. This is where you can download the white paper. Look carefully at the section that says The Big Picture Financial Considerations. You have to read that section three or four times to get the full measure of it.

This is the public hearing for this issue, and they will vote on it the same night. If you have anything to say about this issue, please call your Supervisor, and the Supervisor Chairman, Tommy LaFrance, and then call everybody else’s Supervisor, before Tuesday night, and also come to the public hearing and speak. The phone numbers are:
Tommy LaFrance (Chairman) 743-3715 (home) and 860-1122 (cell)
Charlie Hoke (District 1) 743-9434 (home after 4 p.m.)
John Rust (District 2) 743-5316 (home)
Gerald Cubbage (District 4) 778-3227
Carol Lee Strickler (District 5) 652-3211

There are two issues here. The first is the price of the land. The county argues that this is a fair market price, and the best they can do. The land is owned by John Douglas Atwood. The land is assessed at $48,250 (compared to the purchase price of $600,000). The land is assessed at that value, even though a property across the street sold in 2004 for nearly $60,000 an acre.

Both John Rust and Tommy LaFrance can be expected to vote in favor of this. There’s not too much point in calling them, so call the others instead. Charlie Hoke is open to arguments against it. I don’t know for sure, but I believe both Carol Lee and Gerald would be open to hearing arguments against it. Carol Lee is the person most likely to vote for it, in my opinion. But phone calls from you, their constituents, would be important in helping them make their decision.
The second issue, after you stop thinking and thinking and thinking about the assessed value being $48,250 for that property, compared to the assessed value of YOUR property, is the whole concept of building a “county government COMPLEX” .

This is a wondrous thought. A fine and lovely place, where the school administration office can be, and the county offices, and who knows what else, with lots of parking. A legacy left behind by a Board that will no longer be in place when it actually happens and the bill comes in.

Then the people who live here – Chris Says, Peter Rabbit, Concern Taxpayer, P.Od Citizen, the Wizard of Odds, and all the other lovely characters we met during the last few months – including you and me – will have a fabulous place to visit when they need court documents and tax records. But they will also have tax bills that double again, in the near future. A building plan like this, combined with the shortfall of what will still be spent on the new, 75% occupied, schools and the renovation of the middle schools, will decimate the populations’ ability to pay.

The thinking behind actions like this is that “growth is coming.” The population is booming.

Growth is not coming. The roads are not conducive to bringing in jobs, the population is not growing, and for every retiree that arrives, a young person graduates from high school and leaves. The housing market is near collapse, nationwide, and the retirees who could be expected to be the only population who could move here, can’t sell their houses to do it. Those who would argue for this plan say this is a temporary situation, and we need to be prepared for when the market recovers, by taking on this enormous additional debt. Of course, if the market recovers after 15 – 20 years, we will have paid these prices during essentially a full generation, waiting.

Actions and behavior like this impact a community’s entire future. What businesses and retirees will come here, with a tax structure that forces people out of their homes, bad access roads to the county, and a questionable workforce?

We have already purchased land for a county office building. We have already paid for architects’ drawings for it on that land. We did this earlier in 2007, not a long time ago. The argument is we can use that land for something else (what? Something else that’s free, or something else that costs more money?) There is also an argument that buying this land is not a decision to go forward with the Government Complex. It’s just a great idea for the county to buy up land. At 12 times greater than its assessed value. Partially in the Flood Plain, by the way.

If you agree with this decision to buy the land, do nothing. It will be passed on Tuesday night if there is no citizen outcry. Your silence will be interpreted as agreement.

If you disagree, call Gerald, Carol Lee, and Charlie in the next few days. Come to the meeting Tuesday night and explain your opinion before the vote.

Alice

55 comments:

Anonymous said...

I recommed that you go on Monday morning and take a tour of the current county office buildings, if you can find a place to park, and see if you think we need a new building.

Then call your supervisor and tell them that it is finally time to replace these crumbling buildings, and purchase of land for a county office complex is in our long term best interest.

Anonymous said...

County taxpayer, the decision being made isn't whether to replace the county office building. It's whether to pay 12 times the assessment for a piece of land to do it, when land was already bought for that purpose previously.

Our Supervisors are supervising a county where 35% of the adult population didn't graduate from high school, 65% of the families have a family income less than $50,000 a year, and 13% of the places people call "home" are trailers. There are still a significant number of "homes" in this county without indoor plumbing.

Don't our elected representatives have to be the representatives of these people, too?

Is this where the priorities of our government should lie? What's wrong with building the building that was previously architected, on the land that was previously purchased?

Alice

Anonymous said...

I think we have established the assessment on the property is not in line with market value. Your constant bringing up of this fact is frustrating (insert picture of guy striking dead horse with baseball bat), and reminds me of Allen Cubbage's line "but Charlie, your taxes went down".

While you and many others, including me, may rarely have need to visit the school board offices, you will find they are an aged segregated school and doublewides and also in need of constant repair.

The rescue squad has for some time been trying to find the most suitable location to relocate, not only to be able to reach more people more quickly when emergencies arise, but also to house their growing fleet of emergency vehicles.

Central location of these to one property makes sense to me.

I think the 600K for the property if a fair price for the land and I would rather see the county purchase it and move forward.

Anonymous said...

I am so sick of this county being wish washy. Go back to all the times land has been bought and architechs have been paid and nothing is ever done with them. I think the plan should be across from the courthouse or all the people on the BOS should have to pay out of their pockets for the money already spent on getting the bids for that site that even came in under the budget. What gives? The elementary school children in parts of this country don't have and won't have a new building and they do just fine learning in them. Why can't some of these offices be in the empty school rooms when the high schools become middle schools? Everyone better go find some cheaper land in West Va. now.

Anonymous said...

This time I agree with Alice.

What is wrong with building the building that was previously architected, on the land that was previously purchased?

If it was satisfactory for parking, etc. at the time it was previously architected, it is just as suitable today.

And there should be enough funds already allocated to build the new structure at this location.

My suggestion is that this present Board makes NO DECISION to buy that land at this time.

Anonymous said...

I think it's a fairly safe bet that land will still be available for purchase in January. District 3 hasn't been represented for quite a while. Isn't there some legal reason that a decision like this shouldn't be made without representation in District 3?

Anonymous said...

Eric,

I do believe you are correct. This thing might be overturned in the courts if someone chooses to pursue it. I hadn't really thought about it before. District 3 hasn't been represented in any of the decisions to spend money since Mr. Ballard took ill.

Supervisors-elect Cave and Sours are being sandbagged by this little bit of razzle-dazzle that absolutely, positively has to happen about a month before they take office.

Anonymous said...

ben Why do you believe that Sours and Cave are being sandbagged? Their terms have not yet started. John Rust is only fulfilling his elected term.

Anonymous said...

Possibly the word sandbagged was used because this decision isn't an isolated one, which ends when it's made. Once the land is purchased, it changes the financials of the bigger decision to follow, which is: how much is going to be spent on building the Government Complex. So January comes, and two new Board members have to make decisions in the context of "well we already bought the land" instead of in the context of "should we step foot on this slippery slope"

There is no chance that someone will come along and buy that land out from under you before January. None. So what's your hurry to buy it before the members of the Board who will have to make follow on decisions about it have their chance to get up to speed?

Who knows, maybe now that word is out you're looking for land, someone will offer a different property at a better price.

Alice

Anonymous said...

Yes, what is the hurry to buy this land?

And, right now is not the opportune time for citizen input, with many people occupied with hunting season and the holidays....Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Like, Eric said, district 3 needs to be represented.

I think I may have read where Alice said that the new high schools are going to only be 75% occupied.

Could that additional 25% be utilized for county office space and school board office space. Just an idea.

Anonymous said...

Stop worrying about this. The decision has already been made and all members of the board will vote to purchase the land.

You guys can go back to debating the soon to be instilled changes to the subdivision ordinance.

Let these guys work, that is what you elected them to do.

Anonymous said...

Alice kind of summed it up. I also found it interesting that the subject of the purchase price appeared at a work session the day after elections and will be voted on at the next board regular session. I will bet the reason the Board will give for the need to rush this decision through is that they have a purchase agreement that will expire by some near term date. Maybe it should expire. It's not like the seller will get a better offer from anyone other than the "wealthy" people of Page County.

Anonymous said...

Ben might be on to something. District 3 hasn't had representation in any of the financial decision made by the Board. The big one would be the increase in taxes. I don't know but it seems there was an issue about taxation without representation somewhere back in history.

Anonymous said...

Let me give you a little insite on Luray Rescue Squad.....

Don't get me wrong, the Volunteers of the Luray Rrscue Squad have been a wonderful asset to this community. I know countless individuals that more than likely wouldn't be here today if it hadn't been for the great services provided by the members there. However, Volunteering aside, some of the members at the Squad have "pushed" away the idea of building new quarters for several years. One prospective purchased was where "Boss Hog" built several town homes at the old Woodland Pool lot. It was a split vote between members. I know, I was there. Then they purchased a piece of property behind the old Page Health Center in Luray. They held on to it for a few months to a year and sold it to turn a dime. No new building, as it was intended, but a big fat check. This not only disappointed alot of members, but they lost faith in ever being able to expand. Then a well known member of the Squad approached the owner of the land that the County is currently wanting to aquire. The member nearly demanded that the owner donate the land to the Squad at little to no cost. The owner told him what he wanted for it and the Squad held back. Now the county wants them to split the cost of the property. Will they make the move? Or will they sit and watch the world go by as they normally do.
Member of LVRS

Anonymous said...

Don't Freak Out

The decision has been made, the Board will go through its usual farce of a public hearing and then vote to do what they planned to do in the the first place. Sounds about right! At least the board could pretend to have considered what might be brought up at the public hearing before they actually vote.

I don't know about you, but I didn't vote for that kind of treatment of the county's pocketbook.

Anonymous said...

LVRS member, are you for or against the county purchasing the property and the squad moving to the location?

Anonymous said...

This property price is being presented and seems to me like it is a "go" except for the vote. The way it has been explained on here, it would take a very unreasonable and uncaring BOS to burden the taxpayers once again. This is what I don't understand. They are taxpayers also, so this purchase will ultimately raise their taxes along with ours. What would be the rationale for rushing this through at this point in time? Is it to be able to brag about the lovely complex, or the stature it may bring to our county. Maybe they are thinking like a parent that buys clothes on sale, three sizes to large for their children, thinking that in the long run this will be a better deal. No more band-aiding, or duct-taping...all brand new. I can't think of a logical reason for investing this kind of money when we are clenching our belts tighter each day.

Anonymous said...

It doesn't make sense, does it.

I hope you will call Charlie, Carol Lee, and Gerald, and ask them their viewpoints and post them here. If citizens don't get involved, this will happen on Tuesday night.

There's no point in me standing up and talking on Tuesday night, or making phone calls. They've heard from me already. If it's just me, they consider it a non issue.

History tells them these things can be done, and there will be no consequence, either at the polls, or through phone calls or meeting attendance. That's the "culture." As far as their taxes going up . . . remember the Land Use clause? When the rate goes down, those with land in land use get a tax cut.


Alice

Anonymous said...

Alice There's no point in me standing up and talking on Tuesday night, or making phone calls. They've heard from me already. If it's just me, they consider it a non issue

I think you lost a lot of credibility with your endorsement of Allen Cubbage.

Just my opinion.

Anonymous said...

There are several additional areas of consideration in the matter of the "county complex."

>>Growth is not coming.... roads .. not conducive to bringing in jobs,.. population .. not growing, and for every retiree that arrives, a young person graduates from high school and leaves.<<

Unfortunately the graduates who remain are inadequately prepared by our local school system for meaningful employment with a future. Witness the number of "cosmetology" graduates our system produces through the vo-tech program. Just how many beauty shops can Page County support?

Ditto the number of nursing assistants and licensed practical nurses. Our local hospital, good though it is, is certified at less than 50 beds, and acutally has fewer than 20 in patient beds, with an average daily in patient census of less than 6 overnight patients. Yet, we have over 325 nursing assistants (210 currently licensed) and 170 licensed practical nurses (147 currently licensed) living in Page County. The 115 nursing assistants and 23 LPN's not currently licensed allowed their licenses to expire within the past five years - possibly because of insufficient local employment opportunities. Yet, Page County School system still trains LPN's and and nursing assistants - for what?

Until a few years ago, those without nursing assistant or cosmetology training could hope for a $10 an hour job with Wrangler or Wallace - but Wallace closed and the Wrangler manufacturing jobs went off-shore. Course, we've got a county economic development director - but he hasn't produced much in his tenure. But why does the school system continue training those who remain for jobs that don't exist?

>>....will have a fabulous place to visit when they need court documents...<<

Am not sure that the "court documents" will be at the wild and wonderful new county administration complex. We have a courthouse of some historic significance. It's doubtful that the courts, and therefore the court documents, will move from the current historical courthouse which is still in reasonably good repair.

>>We have already purchased land for a county office building. We have already paid for architects’ drawings for it on that land. We did this earlier in 2007, not a long time ago. The argument is we can use that land for something else (what? Something else that’s free, or something else that costs more money?) There is also an argument that buying this land is not a decision to go forward with the Government Complex. It’s just a great idea for the county to buy up land. At 12 times greater than its assessed value. Partially in the Flood Plain, by the way.<<
Yes, and that land has been taken off the tax rolls. Now the supervisors are considering buying another 10 or so acres of "prime commericial real estate" which will also be removed from the tax rolls. Better to let the current land owner continue paying property taxes on the land and have the county economic development director help in locating a commericial enterprise to buy the land land and develop it into a job creating enterprise that will further expand the tax base. Can't understand how Chairman Tommy and the rest of the Board of Suprvisors (of Stills) have their collective heads so far up someplace where the sun don't shine that they think it a smart move to buy a piece of prime commercial real estate and remove it from the tax rolls. Probably the only Supervisor (of Stills) who will show half a dram of common sense on this will be Charlie Hoke - the only one who grasps the not so esoteric concepts of population growth, costs, revenues, etc. One would think that Chairman Tommy would understand these things, since before retiring, he was the grand high boss of Page County's former largest employer - Wrangler.
>>...and 13% of the places people call "home" are trailers.<<
Now don't you be a talkin' about my double-wide that way. At least when the gang of six Supervisors (of Stills) raise real estate and personal property taxes so high that me and the little lady can't afford to live here no longer, we can hook our double wide on the back the old pick-up and haul it somewhere where the taxes is cheaper. Can't do that with your fancy custom stick-built home.
The other day someone mentioned that the county ought to consider the old IGA/Safeway building on Main Street in Luray. That property has been non-productive for at least 15 years now. A doctor started building a clinic there about ten years ago but never finished it and it's been shut up tighter than a raided still now for almost three years. It's not producing anything revenue wise for either the town of Luray or the county. There's plenty of paved parking and room for horizontal or vertical expansion - how about a high rise sky-scraper county complex???? Anything would look better there than the current derelict building. I'll bet it would be a darn sight cheaper than the property being considered.

Anonymous said...

There are several additional areas of consideration in the matter of the "county complex."

>>Growth is not coming.... roads .. not conducive to bringing in jobs,.. population .. not growing, and for every retiree that arrives, a young person graduates from high school and leaves.<<

Unfortunately the graduates who remain are inadequately prepared by our local school system for meaningful employment with a future. Witness the number of "cosmetology" graduates our system produces through the vo-tech program. Just how many beauty shops can Page County support?

Ditto the number of nursing assistants and licensed practical nurses. Our local hospital, good though it is, is certified at less than 50 beds, and acutally has fewer than 20 in patient beds, with an average daily in patient census of less than 6 overnight patients. Yet, we have over 325 nursing assistants (210 currently licensed) and 170 licensed practical nurses (147 currently licensed) living in Page County. The 115 nursing assistants and 23 LPN's not currently licensed allowed their licenses to expire within the past five years - possibly because of insufficient local employment opportunities. Yet, Page County School system still trains LPN's and and nursing assistants - for what?

Until a few years ago, those without nursing assistant or cosmetology training could hope for a $10 an hour job with Wrangler or Wallace - but Wallace closed and the Wrangler manufacturing jobs went off-shore. Course, we've got a county economic development director - but he hasn't produced much in his tenure. But why does the school system continue training those who remain for jobs that don't exist?

>>....will have a fabulous place to visit when they need court documents...<<

Am not sure that the "court documents" will be at the wild and wonderful new county administration complex. We have a courthouse of some historic significance. It's doubtful that the courts, and therefore the court documents, will move from the current historical courthouse which is still in reasonably good repair.

>>We have already purchased land for a county office building. We have already paid for architects’ drawings for it on that land. We did this earlier in 2007, not a long time ago. The argument is we can use that land for something else (what? Something else that’s free, or something else that costs more money?) There is also an argument that buying this land is not a decision to go forward with the Government Complex. It’s just a great idea for the county to buy up land. At 12 times greater than its assessed value. Partially in the Flood Plain, by the way.<<
Yes, and that land has been taken off the tax rolls. Now the supervisors are considering buying another 10 or so acres of "prime commericial real estate" which will also be removed from the tax rolls. Better to let the current land owner continue paying property taxes on the land and have the county economic development director help in locating a commericial enterprise to buy the land land and develop it into a job creating enterprise that will further expand the tax base. Can't understand how Chairman Tommy and the rest of the Board of Suprvisors (of Stills) have their collective heads so far up someplace where the sun don't shine that they think it a smart move to buy a piece of prime commercial real estate and remove it from the tax rolls. Probably the only Supervisor (of Stills) who will show half a dram of common sense on this will be Charlie Hoke - the only one who grasps the not so esoteric concepts of population growth, costs, revenues, etc. One would think that Chairman Tommy would understand these things, since before retiring, he was the grand high boss of Page County's former largest employer - Wrangler.
>>...and 13% of the places people call "home" are trailers.<<
Now don't you be a talkin' about my double-wide that way. At least when the gang of six Supervisors (of Stills) raise real estate and personal property taxes so high that me and the little lady can't afford to live here no longer, we can hook our double wide on the back the old pick-up and haul it somewhere where the taxes is cheaper. Can't do that with your fancy custom stick-built home.
The other day someone mentioned that the county ought to consider the old IGA/Safeway building on Main Street in Luray. That property has been non-productive for at least 15 years now. A doctor started building a clinic there about ten years ago but never finished it and it's been shut up tighter than a raided still now for almost three years. It's not producing anything revenue wise for either the town of Luray or the county. There's plenty of paved parking and room for horizontal or vertical expansion - how about a high rise sky-scraper county complex???? Anything would look better there than the current derelict building. I'll bet it would be a darn sight cheaper than the property being considered.

Anonymous said...

I have called my Supervisor in the past and spoke to him in person on many occasions. He has often asked me my opinion of things before I even bring them up. However, it seems that every time I tell him my opinion, what ever it may be, my opinion leans towards the best for the county and it's citizens, he votes the opposite. This purchase would be crazy. $66,000 an acre plus figure the building cost. Oh and by the way, before they could build, a rock density test must be conducted on the property. This has to be done by a special contractor. From what I understand, this could range anywhere from $1000.00 per foot to $25,000.00 per foot depending on the rock. Then there is the 211 entrance problem. The county would more than likely be expected to make vast improvements to 211 by-pass in order for an entrance to be placed off of 211 if desired. As far as the rescue squad goes, they had better look elsewhere. I don't think they or anyone else should play tenant to the Page Co. BOS. I hope the BOS looks at this thing in a broad picture and sees the piece of property for what it is. A flood plain on one end, pasture in the middle and a big pile of rock on the other. I must agree with Alice on this one. This is a horrible idea!

Anonymous said...

Where do BOSS HOGG and Mz. Daisey stand on this matter of the new county complex? Will they testify on Tuesday night? Maybe he can start a petition!

Anonymous said...

Wow! There are a number of good reasons here I never even knew or thought about regarding why the land purchase maybe just one more bad deal that will get worse as it plays out. What will be the real cost of building the Taj Mahal? Since the land deal and the idea of a complex instead of an admin building have just shown up on the public radar, you would think our esteemed BoS should give this more exposure to public scrutiny before rushing a vote. Oh yeah, the proposal will be given a fair public hearing and the Board will consider the comments carefully.

Anonymous said...

Of course, the supervisors don't read this blog, so they won't know anything about anyone's thoughts on this if you don't call them or show up at the meeting.

Although, I can't imagine who would be posting those positive comments if it weren't either a supervisor or the owner of the land.

Anonymous said...

Are there guidelines or requirements of office that would make loose stewardship of taxpayer funds actionable?

I read the document 'The County Line.' References to 'recent sales' in Page County do not refer to anything in the 2007 MLS system and would therefore normally be thrown out of a 'comp' analysis. Though I'm sure a forward looking economic analysis exists, only vague references such as 'possible future expansion needs' and 'the county's future facility needs' and 'impending space expansion requirements' are noted. Conspicuously absent is any reference to the glut of empty spaces on Main Street and the plethora of buildings for sale, that have been for sale for years, and sit empty, on Main Street. Business is NOT booming in this town.

Many other things bother me in the document. There is a continual reference to the enormous 'windfall' brought about by having changed the personal property tax collection from annual to semi annual. Why is this considered 'found' or 'new' money? It is the SAME AMOUNT of money collected as anticipated whether annually or semi annually.

And a big one: the document states that the BOS looked at some of the land on Leakesville as a possible site for the Taj, but that it was rejected because 'there are plans for another possible future school on that site.' Can someone tell me whether this is the SECOND school, as planned, or a possible THIRD school?

Finally, the document states, 'Prices for commercially zoned property in the Luray area have skyrocketed. One acre sites near the Wal-Mart shopping center have been selling for near $300,000 per acre. During negotiations for the Brown property, the lowest price offered was in the range of $250,000/acre. Those prices are stunning, but real.'

Questions: 1. When did these sales occur? Provide the documentaton. 2. How much building has commenced on these lots? 3. How much has been completed? 4. How much of the planned commercial enterprises on these lots are committed with leases in place, and businesses champing at the bit to open in these facilities?

Outlook for the national economy, which we feel here first: the price of gas at the pump has tripled since 2000 and the price of a barrel of oil quadrupled, over the same time frame. The subprime mortgage crisis has only begun to work its way through the economy. Foreclosures have skyrocketed, and holders of financial instruments backed by these mortgages are unable to value them, because they are unable to sell them, because they are becoming worthless. And has anyone noticed their food bills lately?

The mentality of 'let them do their job' no longer applies if no one in these jobs sees the larger picture of what is happening both here, and in the rest of the country, economically.

These questions should be answered to citizens' satisfaction and we should also find out if there is a way to 'enjoin' the board from playing casino dice with taxpayer dollars, UNLESS it is backed up with hard data...and then, I would be delighted to be called wrong.

Anonymous said...

Well, welll, well.... I know what my starting price per acre will be when the county wants my land for the airport expansion. If the county is willing to spend that much on land for a new building, then why not that much for the airport expansion. After all, the airport expansion will generate millions in new business dollars - at least that's what they want us to believe.

Anonymous said...

Manassas they will buy it with eminent domain, and give you what they think it is worth.

Anonymous said...

Chris says Things to be thankfull for. 1 Our sorry Board of Supervisors. 2 Our Assements. 3 Our fine Sheriffs Dept keeping us outta the headlines in the newspapers. Things to really be thankfull for. 1 Election in two years to fire the current BOS members at least the ones who are up for re-election. 2 Federal Investigators and Indictments. 3 Change

Page County Watch said...

You're making me crazy, Chris. Give it a rest. What do you think about the idea of buying the land for $66,000 an acre? Do you know anyone who has land for sale? Here's their buyer.

Anonymous said...

I have 3 questions before tomorrow night's meeting:

1) Is it absolutely legal to vote on this without a representative from District 3 not participating?

2) Has the Town of Luray already voted their approval, or is that the next step if this is approved by the BOS?

3) I noticed the "Big Picture" stated it "was not necessary to hold a formal public meeting" concerning this matter. Does that mean they will or will not allow citizens to question or speak?

Anonymous said...

Chris says As I said the board of supervisorvs are horrible and nothing is gonna change thet. I think 66k is crazy for a acre but who's gonna listen to me or you. Who Alice telling these people to call there sups is like telling me to pull the troops out of Iraq I don't have the power and neither do you. No one is gonna stand up and fight for this stuff because the people your asking to is the same dummys that voted them in here in the first place. Like I said I hope they triple are taxes to keep paying for there foolish mistakes because sooner or later the people will wise up but this WEEK it's not gonna change a thing. It will get bought and that will be that.

Anonymous said...

1. It is legal, Mr Ballard could show.

2. The town has not yet, but will without doubt approve this.

3. There will be time for citizens to speak.

Anonymous said...

Chris says It will get bought and that will be that.

I agree with chris says

I can't believe I just typed that.

Page County Watch said...

Anon-Who-Didn't-Pick-A-Handle

1. The Virginia Code, section 15.2-602 says "There shall be on the board for each magisterial or election district at least one member, and he shall be a qualified voter of such district"

And it says "Any vacancy on the board shall be filled as provided in 24.2-228

Then section 24.2-228 says, "When a vacancy occurs in a local governing body or an elected school board, the remaining members of the body or board, respectively, within forty five days of the office becoming vacant, shall appoint a qualified voter of the election district in which the vacancy occurred to fill the vacancy. If a majority of the remaining members cannot agree or do not act, the judge of the circuit court of the county or city shall make the appointment. "

The fact is, Mr. Ballard hasn't been there for more than six months. He hasn't resigned, but the voters of his district haven't been represented. The defense to going ahead without him is that nobody wanted to be rude enough to ask him to resign. It would be an easy enough thing to just ask him to resign and appoint Mr. Cave to fill out his term.

2. The town has not yet approved this, but I wouldn't count the Town Council out, in terms of approving or disapproving it.

3. Yes, there is time for citizens to speak on the agenda before the vote.

4. And Chris, you are a tax paying citizen, a property owner, a wage earner, and a family man. You have every right to call your supervisor and express your opinion on issues like this. But, If you live in District 3, you don't have anybody to call. Call Chairman LaFrance. At dinnertime, like a telemarketer.

It does matter when people show up at these meetings, and when they write letters to the editor.

Anonymous said...

I do not know why but for some reason the majority of people that I have brought this up to know nothing about it. Be sure to bring it up to people so there will be loud voices at the meeting tuesday night.

Page County Watch said...

Peace, there is seldom any attendance at the Board meetings. The Page News actually did a good job of explaining the issues this time, but it seems that nearly all the citizens of Page just glaze over when it comes to the Board of Supervisors, and don't seem to realize what a major and important impact on their personal lives the Board's decisions have.

During the elections, it seemed like the majority of the citizens of Page believed the Sheriff ran the county.

It was one of those "You're not in Kansas any more, Dorothy" moments for me.

So we have all of this blather about the clique, and then nobody shows up at the board meetings. Sort of an "oh, well, it's out of our hands, there's nothing we can do" Like Chris Says says.

Our traffic on this board is down since the election, but we are still getting about 60 - 70 a day on weekdays, less on weekends. (People do this at work, I guess)

Alice

Anonymous said...

I spoke to Tommy LaFfance on the phone.He gave me the impression he is definately voting to buy the land.He said the land that has already been bought for this purpose can not be built on.I told him they should have found that out before they bought it. It is very important to start calling them and to go to the meeting tomorrow night at the school.Your
grandchildren will still be paying for this mistake.Understand the 600,000 is for the land only ,not any of the other expences that go along with what they have plans to do.

Anonymous said...

I realize the county is not in th real estate investing business, but there are much worse things the county could spend money on. In 20 years that 60K will look mighty cheap. Might be a good spot for a business incubator or something. Don't be so down on this county. Good things will happen in due time. And it's still a great place to live.
Go start a business, do something productive. Constantly moaning about no jobs, high taxes doesn't make life better for your or anyone else.

Anonymous said...

Sorry about the Anon-without-any-handle. It is Donna from now on. I understand what "peace in the valley" is saying. I have spoken to a dozen or more people (sometimes I was pushy) concerning the purchase of the land for PCGC and they respond like this..."Huh?" That is why I think this blog is so important. At last we have found a way to keep a minority (hopefully the numbers will increase) informed. A lot of us, me and my family included, sat back with, as you say, glazed eyes and just let the council and board make the decisions for us. The only form of communication we had before was through the newspapers or word on the street. Both avenues were 50% info and 50% heresay , so we chose not be involved unless it concerned "US". So.......as you said, call your supervisor. We did, twice, Mr. Hoke. No call backs at all. Maybe he was busy or not available. Mr. La France was curt and to the point and basically gave the impression that he would vote Yea. Mr.Rust was also called. Needless, to say, bad decision. No answer. I guess I should have tried them all but I didn't. It is the eve before the vote so for the FIRST time ever we shall be at the board meeting tomorrow night to see what our government actually does when someone is watching.

Anonymous said...

to to the complainers
in 20years everything from now will look pretty cheap.Evidently
you do not own property in the county or you are independently wealthy.If the property is assessed at 48,250 I can not understand why the county would
pay 600,000 for it. Maybe I will see if the board is interested in a bridge in brooklyn that I own.
To everyone else that is interested
call the bos and go to the meeting. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

My husband and I also have concerns about this purchase, so we called Mr. Hoke last evening and found him to be very receptive!

Anonymous said...

Cletus T Judd Thinks Alice is still in wonderland if she thinks she can change things. I guess she just wants everyone involved. Maybe she should have wrote a book about the current supervisors that would be a bestseller. Titled I'm not a crook! Then the current BOS could all defend themselves. One crook at a time. Alice needs to realize the stubborn idiots don't care about people's view the just care about themselves. There is the reason she nor her group cannot change things by wasting there time going to a meeting tonight. Hey I'm sure there's something good on TV. Save your time and put your effort into something constructive by planning for the next election and getting rid of the BOS.

Page County Watch said...

Cletus, if more people attend these BOS meetings instead of watching reality TV, it will make the job of getting new board members in two years that much easier.

Some things have to be seen to be believed. These meetings are, as Don Imus used to say, in the category of "you can't make it up"

My modest ramblings don't do the horror of it justice.

If you're looking for a night's entertainment, get your soulmate and the two of you have dinner and then go watch the show. Stanley Elementary School, 7 p.m. Tuesday Nov 20

Alice

Anonymous said...

Cletus T Judd My response is make a fool of yourself all you want to me I'll kick back and drink a cold beer and let you people who have no life fix it. Just like everyone else in this county. Set back and wait.

Anonymous said...

Going to the BOS meetings amounts to as much as sticking your finger up your butt, either way you will probably get hemmoroids!

Anonymous said...

We went to Oz tonight and saw a lot of lions who had a lot of "courage" and a lot of tin-men who had a lot of "heart". Unfortunately, we also saw three scarecrows who had no "brains".

On the way out four complete strangers stopped us and said they lived in District 3 and wanted to know who they were being represented by. We didn't have an answer.

Anonymous said...

Well for all you people who sat back and did nothing the 600,000
land purchase is in. Just remember
how nice it was to sit home and do nothing when you get those new tax bills in the next year or two if not before. Alice is right there was not too many people there and the way I understand it there were a lot more than usual.Hopefully most of the people that visit this blog called the bos and where there. No it may not of did any good this time but I think if we could make a real showing of people and the board knew we all really had a deep interest in what they are spending our money on they may spend it more wisely.
The handful of people there tonight is not near enough to let them know that we care. I guess when we can not afford to live in this county any more we will all have something to say then. So set back and enjoy that beer while you can.

Anonymous said...

So did they vote for or against buying the land?

Anonymous said...

Cletus T Judd Can I hear a I told you so. Until you get the supervisors in 1,3,4,5, out there will be nothing to go to these meetings for.

Anonymous said...

So, Cletus, how do you get bad supervisors out if nobody cares enough to go to the meetings and see what they're doing?

John Rust only lost by 34 votes. He could easily have won. Does that mean all those people think John Rust voted in their interests? Or does it mean they think he's a nice guy, and he was running as a Republican?

If voters don't know or understand the issues, how can they decide whether to vote the supervisor out?

Anonymous said...

Cletus T Judd Alice I guess you don't understand who cares he lost there's still other worthless supervisors on there who are gonna destroy the county. The one thing you don't seem to consider is they are gonna do what they want because they know the people will forget and forgive.

Anonymous said...

>>Alice Richmond said...John Rust only lost by 34 votes.<<

And Lee McWhorter only lost by about 33 votes. Only 64 or so votes separated Lee and Chairman Tommy. Had 33 voters gone the other way it would be Chairman Lee instead of Chairman Tommy. I voted for Tommy the last time, despite his uninspiring campaign. Remember his obtuse campaign platform based on the letters P-A-G-E? In retrospect I think his grandchildren wrote it for him. Sure hope he doesn't run for reelection because I sure won't vote for him and I know more than a few from his own home District 1 who wouldn't vote for him again either. He doesn't have any vision for the county - course that's par for almost all of the Supervisors (of Stills).

Anonymous said...

Cletus T Judd All of the supervisors current are just worthless but as long as people keep voting for the wrong person to represent them NOTHING Alice says or anyone else is gonna change things. As you seen by there big parade at the vote bringing out the people sometimes more than most does not help.

Anonymous said...

More people should have come!It may have made a difference.44 people is really not very many when you consider how many are in the county.