This was posted by Barky Von Schnauzer farther down under another topic. But it is important. We do not have the money to pay for this landfill to continue. And yet it continues. We have about 20 Tons of trash a day in page County.
GUEST BLOG
On the subject of the landfill it does seem that we are not breaking even, with large equipment purchases (Compactor, etc.) and only receiving 100 tons of waste per day and all the ongoing monitoring costs, both gas and ground water monitoring. Keep in mind it takes approximately 200-250 tons of trash per day, paying tons to break even, with a Sub-Title D Landfill. In addition, we have the on-going post closure costs of the Stanley Landfill, this landfill (and many like it) called HB 1205, as in House Bill 1205 is an unlined facility. So chances are there will be additional costs associated with remediation, check out the Ivy landfill in Albermarle County, they are curently in GPS (Ground Water Protection Standards), this is a remeadiation process to abate and take care of any ground water problems the landfill is/or has caused. We have 30 years of post closure care at Stanley. The county already has a passive system for burning off gas the old candle sticks as they have been called, as well as they manage an active gas extraction system which pulls methane gas from the Stanley Landfill, this is the active system. I beleive the county is only in about the 5th or 6th year in post closure care at Stanley. And again this is an unlined facility, Battle Creek is a lined facility meaning a compsoite liner is used to protect the ground, however EPA can not without a doubt say that even a lined landfill will not leak at some point in the future. The solid waste management regs are constantly being amended and changed and their has been discussion to make monitoring 50 years instead of 30 years. Where I am going with this is that costs are going to be ongoing for a long time with both landfills. To close Battle Creek, would mean the start of 30 years of ongoing post closure care while we would still have 24 to 25 years of post closure care at Stanley, and we would still have to construct a Transfer station, which has ongoing costs as well. Hind sight being 20/20 as they say, we should have closed the landfill that is Stanley back in 1994 when post closure requirements were only 10 years in length and not 30, we could have constructed a transfer station, handled only the waste generated in Page County, know that all the waste prior to 1994 would have been only Page Conty's trash being deposited at the Stanley landfill. Ths is what Warren County did, they closed their landfill prior to 1994 constructed a transfer station, and only had to monitor their facility (Landfill) for 10 years. And even with a transfer station, in addition to operational costs their would be transportation costs to Culpeper and that is even if they were allowed by their permit to accept waste from Page County. What is funny to me is their is a transfer station (Warren County's in Bentonville) less than 20 miles from Battle Creek taking their waste almost three hours to a landfill in Richmond. We should be opening up discussions again with Warren County to get their waste (approximately 100-110 tons per day) so we could at least maybe break even. They have quality municipal waste such as Page, and it seems we could offset their transportation cost (traveling 3 hours) to about 30 minutes and offer Warren County a tipping fee palitable to them and Page as well. Again we are only receiving about 100 or so tons now while I believe all three towns are dumping for free in this 100 tons. What is even more interesting, is to follow the Waste Management truck(s) outside of the town limits and watch them pick up green and blue containers and put them in the same truck as the "free" town waste, who is paying for that trash, our tax $$$. What is even more interesting is the businesses who have green/blue trash containers whos trash also goes into the waste management truck, so if we (County tax payers) are really paying for the towns residents to dump for free while are their residents outside of the town as well as businesses dumping in the "free" truck. If this is the case why have conveience sites, allow the WM truck to pick up trash at every household in Page County, on our tax paying tab. Just food for thought to go along with the Crooked County Book and Marvin Bush
Friday, September 28, 2007
Gilbert's on the Job
Todd Gilbert, running unopposed for state representative, is on the Virginia Immigration Commission. He's also on the Internet. After seeing information about a member of the Immigration Commission on the Internet, Gilbert contacted Kaine's office with the information.
Here is what Gilbert may have seen. CLICK ON THOSE WORDS
According to Northern Virginia Daily, in an article on Friday, Sept 28, by Garren Shipley, Kaine announced the resignation of Dr. Esam Omeish, the president of the Falls Church-based Muslim American Society, from the 20-member commission studying the impacts of illegal immigration on the commonwealth on Thursday afternoon.
Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Woodstock, who first approached Kaine with concerns about Omeish, said he was "gratified that Kaine acted so quickly," but added that the incident raised serious questions about how thoroughly the administration was checking into the backgrounds of its policy advisers.
________________________________________________________________________
Congratulations to our Delegate! He has proven time and again that he is awake and aware and on the job for all of us.
And qudos to the power of the Internet.
Here is what Gilbert may have seen. CLICK ON THOSE WORDS
According to Northern Virginia Daily, in an article on Friday, Sept 28, by Garren Shipley, Kaine announced the resignation of Dr. Esam Omeish, the president of the Falls Church-based Muslim American Society, from the 20-member commission studying the impacts of illegal immigration on the commonwealth on Thursday afternoon.
Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Woodstock, who first approached Kaine with concerns about Omeish, said he was "gratified that Kaine acted so quickly," but added that the incident raised serious questions about how thoroughly the administration was checking into the backgrounds of its policy advisers.
________________________________________________________________________
Congratulations to our Delegate! He has proven time and again that he is awake and aware and on the job for all of us.
And qudos to the power of the Internet.
Wednesday, September 26, 2007
Full Speed Ahead
Planning Commission notes from Sept 25
Quoted from my notes of the Board of Supervisors meeting on September 18:
“The contract for the consultant to do the Land Use Map was shown. Kevin Henry wanted them to approve the money ($43,000) and the contract (pure time and travel, no specified deliverables, just send the money based on timecards) but Tommy LaFrance said something on the order of (paraphrased and caricaturized) “why do we need to pay a consultant to borrow our watch and tell us what time it is?” And Gerald Cubbage said why do we need some outsider to tell us where to put the bubbles on the bubble map, and Carol Lee said, well, maybe we could just get a little bit of help, not this much, and Charlie Hoke said, why don’t we go talk to the Planning Commission about this again and John Rust was absent. So they tabled it, pending talking to the Planning Commission about it some more. Tommy and Gerald thought Kevin Henry was up to the job, and the job really entails input from the towns and the citizens, so what does that have to do with a consultant. Kevin said, but there’s only one of me, so it’s going to take a long time.”
I thought that meant they didn’t want to spend the consultant money on the easy part, the part which just entails facilitating meetings to find out how the citizens want the county to look. That would mean the money would still be there after the Land Use Map was developed, when they might need real expertise to develop zoning ordinances. The danger in spending the money now, on the meeting facilitation, at $43,000 for 266 hours of time, is that then, when the money is all gone, and there still is no Land Use Map because the consultants held the meetings, but citizens didn’t attend, and so consensus was not built, the Land Use Map we spent $43,000 for will still not be accepted by the community, and the money will have been spent for no good reason. Building consensus within the community is time consuming and long. You can’t just hold a meeting, to which nobody comes, and then declare that you’ve fulfilled your obligation to hold a meeting, and proceed without consensus or community understanding.
The thing about our citizens is that they won’t figure out what’s going on until this is way down the road, and somebody tells them their land is being condemned because maybe a sinkhole is under it, and now it has to be a park. THEN they want to come out with picket signs, even though this has been brewing for years, under the radar, where nobody’s paying attention to it. So the point of not hiring the consultant for the Land Use Map is just that it’s a Time and Materials contract, with no deliverables, except the Timecards. Nothing to showing up for a meeting, conducting it whether anybody attends or not, and sending a bill. So the consensus building will be particularly hard, especially because there was no citizen involvement in developing the Comprehensive Plan that was just approved, so you are not starting with agreement that the goals stated there are in the community’s best interest in the first place. You won't even be able to get the bubbles placed on the bubble map without that.
The consultants part in building that consensus, at between $150 and $300 an hour, could maybe be cut down to just a little advice, rather than to spending all that was budgeted on this part. Perhaps the consultant could just spend a week with Mr. Henry, getting him ready to run these consensus building meetings, instead of paying the consultant to run them, because in Page County, these meetings aren't going to "take" the first time. They'll need a rerun. Or maybe three or four reruns.
At the Planning Commission meeting September 25, though, nobody from the Board was there to talk about the reasons why they wanted to proceed on the Land Use Map without a consultant. Nobody from the Planning Commission had been briefed on their reasons. So the Planning Commission just had a short discussion about it, and then re-requested or reaffirmed that they wanted to hire a consultant. They didn’t have anyone to explain to them why this contract was not immediately approved. When the Board, ie Charlie Hoke, is about to turn something down, but then Charlie pipes up with, "Let's talk to the Planning Commission about it first," we, as citizens, think that means they are actually going to talk to the Planning Commission, not just let the Planning Commission go off and vote again without any discussion.
Meanwhile, the Water Quality Advisory committee has issued a report on cleaning up the river. It says there is fecal cloriform (from warm blooded mammals) in 22% of our wells. And some other kind of bacteria in 44%.
I haven’t read that report yet, but I hope it says that comes from the cows in the river instead of saying it comes from people. All the people I know have health department approved septic systems. I wonder if there are people living on the river who don’t have septic systems. I will get a copy of the report and tell you.
Or, you can call 743-4142 and get your own copy, and tell me what you think.
Also, there was more talk about Karst and how the runoff endangers wells and causes sinkholes.
I haven’t seen any news reports about sinkholes, people falling in them or cars and houses being swallowed up. I guess that’s something that would happen if we got development here. If anybody wants to post any reports about sinkholes in the county, I’d be happy to post it. Or just hit the comments button.
There was also talk about a consultant who is in the process of writing a proffer model for if developers come here. One part of the proffer model is if you allow “age-restricted” communities. Apparently, with the Baby Boomers retiring, that is a popular model, because when you get to be a grandparent, you like everybody who lives around you to just have their grandchildren visit, not live next door to you. The problem with these “55 and over only” communities is that the developer doesn’t have to pay any “proffers” for schools, and that’s why developers like them. But they potentially strain the hospitals and ambulances, if you get too many of them. Also, they can be a problem for a person who buys a house in one of these communities, and then later, events overtake them and maybe a grandchild needs to come to live with grandpa and grandma because of some problem, and then guess what? Grandpa and Grandma either have to move, or they have to refuse to take the child in. Of course, this is planning ahead, for that sunshiny day when a developer decides it would be worth his while to build houses here. That’s what the whole Planning Commission is about. Planning ahead for the future.
To quote Commissioner Charles Newton, “We don’t want to do something now that causes a problem that is very expensive to fix in fifty years.”
So this is big, long range planning. With amazing foresight.
Wish you’d been there.
Alice
I know everybody’s too busy gossiping about the various Sheriff candidates to bother paying attention to this, but I think someday you’ll be sorry you didn’t watch what’s going on here.
Quoted from my notes of the Board of Supervisors meeting on September 18:
“The contract for the consultant to do the Land Use Map was shown. Kevin Henry wanted them to approve the money ($43,000) and the contract (pure time and travel, no specified deliverables, just send the money based on timecards) but Tommy LaFrance said something on the order of (paraphrased and caricaturized) “why do we need to pay a consultant to borrow our watch and tell us what time it is?” And Gerald Cubbage said why do we need some outsider to tell us where to put the bubbles on the bubble map, and Carol Lee said, well, maybe we could just get a little bit of help, not this much, and Charlie Hoke said, why don’t we go talk to the Planning Commission about this again and John Rust was absent. So they tabled it, pending talking to the Planning Commission about it some more. Tommy and Gerald thought Kevin Henry was up to the job, and the job really entails input from the towns and the citizens, so what does that have to do with a consultant. Kevin said, but there’s only one of me, so it’s going to take a long time.”
I thought that meant they didn’t want to spend the consultant money on the easy part, the part which just entails facilitating meetings to find out how the citizens want the county to look. That would mean the money would still be there after the Land Use Map was developed, when they might need real expertise to develop zoning ordinances. The danger in spending the money now, on the meeting facilitation, at $43,000 for 266 hours of time, is that then, when the money is all gone, and there still is no Land Use Map because the consultants held the meetings, but citizens didn’t attend, and so consensus was not built, the Land Use Map we spent $43,000 for will still not be accepted by the community, and the money will have been spent for no good reason. Building consensus within the community is time consuming and long. You can’t just hold a meeting, to which nobody comes, and then declare that you’ve fulfilled your obligation to hold a meeting, and proceed without consensus or community understanding.
The thing about our citizens is that they won’t figure out what’s going on until this is way down the road, and somebody tells them their land is being condemned because maybe a sinkhole is under it, and now it has to be a park. THEN they want to come out with picket signs, even though this has been brewing for years, under the radar, where nobody’s paying attention to it. So the point of not hiring the consultant for the Land Use Map is just that it’s a Time and Materials contract, with no deliverables, except the Timecards. Nothing to showing up for a meeting, conducting it whether anybody attends or not, and sending a bill. So the consensus building will be particularly hard, especially because there was no citizen involvement in developing the Comprehensive Plan that was just approved, so you are not starting with agreement that the goals stated there are in the community’s best interest in the first place. You won't even be able to get the bubbles placed on the bubble map without that.
The consultants part in building that consensus, at between $150 and $300 an hour, could maybe be cut down to just a little advice, rather than to spending all that was budgeted on this part. Perhaps the consultant could just spend a week with Mr. Henry, getting him ready to run these consensus building meetings, instead of paying the consultant to run them, because in Page County, these meetings aren't going to "take" the first time. They'll need a rerun. Or maybe three or four reruns.
At the Planning Commission meeting September 25, though, nobody from the Board was there to talk about the reasons why they wanted to proceed on the Land Use Map without a consultant. Nobody from the Planning Commission had been briefed on their reasons. So the Planning Commission just had a short discussion about it, and then re-requested or reaffirmed that they wanted to hire a consultant. They didn’t have anyone to explain to them why this contract was not immediately approved. When the Board, ie Charlie Hoke, is about to turn something down, but then Charlie pipes up with, "Let's talk to the Planning Commission about it first," we, as citizens, think that means they are actually going to talk to the Planning Commission, not just let the Planning Commission go off and vote again without any discussion.
Meanwhile, the Water Quality Advisory committee has issued a report on cleaning up the river. It says there is fecal cloriform (from warm blooded mammals) in 22% of our wells. And some other kind of bacteria in 44%.
I haven’t read that report yet, but I hope it says that comes from the cows in the river instead of saying it comes from people. All the people I know have health department approved septic systems. I wonder if there are people living on the river who don’t have septic systems. I will get a copy of the report and tell you.
Or, you can call 743-4142 and get your own copy, and tell me what you think.
Also, there was more talk about Karst and how the runoff endangers wells and causes sinkholes.
I haven’t seen any news reports about sinkholes, people falling in them or cars and houses being swallowed up. I guess that’s something that would happen if we got development here. If anybody wants to post any reports about sinkholes in the county, I’d be happy to post it. Or just hit the comments button.
There was also talk about a consultant who is in the process of writing a proffer model for if developers come here. One part of the proffer model is if you allow “age-restricted” communities. Apparently, with the Baby Boomers retiring, that is a popular model, because when you get to be a grandparent, you like everybody who lives around you to just have their grandchildren visit, not live next door to you. The problem with these “55 and over only” communities is that the developer doesn’t have to pay any “proffers” for schools, and that’s why developers like them. But they potentially strain the hospitals and ambulances, if you get too many of them. Also, they can be a problem for a person who buys a house in one of these communities, and then later, events overtake them and maybe a grandchild needs to come to live with grandpa and grandma because of some problem, and then guess what? Grandpa and Grandma either have to move, or they have to refuse to take the child in. Of course, this is planning ahead, for that sunshiny day when a developer decides it would be worth his while to build houses here. That’s what the whole Planning Commission is about. Planning ahead for the future.
To quote Commissioner Charles Newton, “We don’t want to do something now that causes a problem that is very expensive to fix in fifty years.”
So this is big, long range planning. With amazing foresight.
Wish you’d been there.
Alice
I know everybody’s too busy gossiping about the various Sheriff candidates to bother paying attention to this, but I think someday you’ll be sorry you didn’t watch what’s going on here.
Monday, September 24, 2007
Water Quality Meeting
The following is a condensed version of a notice published in the Page News & Courier last week. Sorry for the late notice. I just spotted it this morning. The issue of water quality in the county is an important one. If anyone can make it to this event, please report back on any issues addressed.
<>The Page County Water Quality Advisory folks are having a Water Gathering accompanied by a fish fry on Sunday, Sept 30 at Compton Rapids. (I assume access from 340.) People knowledgeable in water resource matters will be there to answer any questions or concerns you might have. The event is free to Page County residents but reservations are required by 24 September, call 540-244-8366 or 743-4808.
Regarding any other county meetings or issues like this, if you would like your event posted here, email a notice to Research@PageCountyWatch.org and i will post it. If anyone attends and would like to post information about it, email me and I will post it.
<>The Page County Water Quality Advisory folks are having a Water Gathering accompanied by a fish fry on Sunday, Sept 30 at Compton Rapids. (I assume access from 340.) People knowledgeable in water resource matters will be there to answer any questions or concerns you might have. The event is free to Page County residents but reservations are required by 24 September, call 540-244-8366 or 743-4808.
Regarding any other county meetings or issues like this, if you would like your event posted here, email a notice to Research@PageCountyWatch.org and i will post it. If anyone attends and would like to post information about it, email me and I will post it.
Saturday, September 22, 2007
POSTING RULES
Because of the hot issues, and the election issues, and the few posters who are threatening the credibility of the Blog, and because I don’t want to disallow Anonymous posting and I don’t want to install moderation, I’m instituting this policy.
This document serves as a "plain language" guide to conduct of users of the Page County Watch Blog and sets forth how violators will be treated.
Infractions
* Abuse of Other Posters
Our Posters are all to be treated as members of a community. Name-calling, intentional abuse or otherwise creating a hostile environment for other Posters is unacceptable. Posts which do this will be deleted. Constructive, non-personal criticism and civil discourse is permissible; personal attacks are not.
* Obscene and/or Racist Postings
Linking to obscene web sites, posting obscene or graphic language, or violating the standards of decent behavior falls under obscenity, and is not allowed. Any postings which are deemed, in the discretion of the PCW Blogger, to be racist, anti-Semitic, or condemning any persons ethnicity or religious beliefs, or which otherwise reflect prejudice are not allowed.
* Flooding/Excessive Posting
"Flooding" is generally defined as the same person posting so much that others views are relegated to a minor position. If the same position is posted in multiple threads, posted multiple times, and continually appears, PCW will delete it.
* Spamming/Advertising
No advertising of anything. Advertisements will be deleted, but announcing events of community interest is allowed.
* Trolling
"Trolling" is generally defined as posting derogatory, inflammatory or otherwise irritating comments in an attempt to "bait" other members into responding angrily. This is not allowed on our site.
Procedures
Any posts that break these rules will be deleted. No warnings.
After attempting to enforce this rule for 2 days, it turned out to be too difficult. So as of Sunday afternoon, Sept 24, this is a moderated forum from now on out. That means your posts are still anonymous, but instead of posting as soon as you submit them, they come to my email for approval before they can be posted. Any posts which break these rules will be rejected before it is ever posted.
This document serves as a "plain language" guide to conduct of users of the Page County Watch Blog and sets forth how violators will be treated.
Infractions
* Abuse of Other Posters
Our Posters are all to be treated as members of a community. Name-calling, intentional abuse or otherwise creating a hostile environment for other Posters is unacceptable. Posts which do this will be deleted. Constructive, non-personal criticism and civil discourse is permissible; personal attacks are not.
* Obscene and/or Racist Postings
Linking to obscene web sites, posting obscene or graphic language, or violating the standards of decent behavior falls under obscenity, and is not allowed. Any postings which are deemed, in the discretion of the PCW Blogger, to be racist, anti-Semitic, or condemning any persons ethnicity or religious beliefs, or which otherwise reflect prejudice are not allowed.
* Flooding/Excessive Posting
"Flooding" is generally defined as the same person posting so much that others views are relegated to a minor position. If the same position is posted in multiple threads, posted multiple times, and continually appears, PCW will delete it.
* Spamming/Advertising
No advertising of anything. Advertisements will be deleted, but announcing events of community interest is allowed.
* Trolling
"Trolling" is generally defined as posting derogatory, inflammatory or otherwise irritating comments in an attempt to "bait" other members into responding angrily. This is not allowed on our site.
Procedures
Any posts that break these rules will be deleted. No warnings.
After attempting to enforce this rule for 2 days, it turned out to be too difficult. So as of Sunday afternoon, Sept 24, this is a moderated forum from now on out. That means your posts are still anonymous, but instead of posting as soon as you submit them, they come to my email for approval before they can be posted. Any posts which break these rules will be rejected before it is ever posted.
Tuesday, September 18, 2007
Borrow Your Watch?
Notes from the Board of Supervisors Public Hearing, Sept 18, 2007
1. The school board needs another $40,000 or so because they missed something, I’m not sure what, something to do with a road and a cell phone tower. Mark Belton said they had it in contingency funds, it was approved.
2. The 911 system needs some people’s addresses changed. That was approved.
3. The contract for the consultant to do the Land Use Map was shown. Kevin Henry wanted them to approve the money ($43,000) and the contract (pure time and travel, no specified deliverables, just send the money based on timecards) but Tommy LaFrance said something on the order of (paraphrased and caricaturized) “why do we need to pay a consultant to borrow our watch and tell us what time it is?” And Gerald Cubbage said why do we need some outsider to tell us where to put the bubbles on the bubble map, and Carol Lee said, well, maybe we could just get a little bit of help, not this much, and Charlie Hoke said, why don’t we go talk to the Planning Commission about this again and John Rust was absent. So they tabled it, pending talking to the Planning Commission about it some more. Tommy and Gerald thought Kevin Henry was up to the job, and the job really entails input from the towns and the citizens, so what does that have to do with a consultant. Kevin said, but there’s only one of me, so it’s going to take a long time.
4. Then the aircraft personal property tax thing came up again. That hasn’t been approved yet. Earlier, before the meeting actually started, John Rogerson made a citizen comment that if they approved the tax rate on the new basis, could they potentially change it back to the old basis without a public hearing, and the lawyer said no, they couldn’t do that. But they tabled this again anyway.
5. There were some budget changes, but they were minor moving around things.
6. John Graves was appointed to the Water Quality Advisory Committee. There is also an opening on the Planning Commission, but the surprise candidate is not being announced until John Rust comes back from wherever he is, and there’s also an opening on the Economic Development Authority committee in District 3.
7. The Revenue office needs a new computer. Something about they upgraded the software and it used up all the old hardware. The old hardware was 4 years old anyway. Ancient. Anyhow this new computer cost $75,000 and it wasn’t budgeted.
8. And then there was a bunch of money that seemed to be laying around unused, so Mark was suggesting ways to use it. One way was to spend half a million dollars buying an option on land to become a Luray Business Park. Another way was to put $100,000 into a revolving loan fund that local businesses can use. This isn’t “extra”money, it’s just money that is unused cash. It’s an accounting thing. It’s about returns on money, and the best places to put it. It sounded okay. It’s like not a “spend” of money, it’s a “park” of money.
The actual meeting was shorter than the citizen comment and Supervisors Time (that’s when the Supervisors talk at the end). In citizen comments:
1. Jeff Vaughn (Shenandoah Speedway) said he’s measuring noise a certain way, and if that’s not the right way, he needs them to work with him to figure this out, because he thinks he’s following the rules, but then he gets notices saying the noise is too high, so what’s up with that?
2. Jeff Vaughn said the Supervisors need to talk to property owners about the Land Use Map not just consultants.
3. John Rogerson said what’s up with that tree you can’t cut down that you went and bought the land and got the plans and spent all that money and why can’t you rethink that instead of buying more land somewhere else.
4. John Rogerson said the school funding has a lot of things missing, this is just the beginning.
5. John Rogerson said there was a DEQ meeting about the landfill and there are violations there and the Board isn’t paying attention to them.
6. John Rogerson said what’s this about voting on the Voters Rights Act when it wasn’t on the agenda and there was no background given about it.
7. John Rogerson said why is Henry over at the dump preventing people from leaving good stuff there for other people to pick up?
8. John Rogerson said why do we have to buy land for a business park in the hopes that it will bring business. That’s like lengthening the runway in the hopes that it will bring planes. You can’t just build it and they will come.
9. Natalie Zuckerman said we need the consultant to finish up the Comprehensive Plan because it didn’t have a Land Use Map and that’s just like when they couldn’t finish the Comprehensive Plan because there was nobody to update the tables, and she updated the tables and for all her hard work she got called the “Unelected Citizen”. (Understand, the Board didn’t call her that. The Board thanked her for her work.) So they should hire a consultant because the Planning Commission needs one, and they already got together with the Planning Commission about it and the Planning Commission told them they needed one.
Then the Supervisors tried to answer some of these. Or, at least Tommy, Gerald, and Carol Lee tried. Charlie always just says, “yeah, thanks for coming.” Like a Potted Plant.
At the end, they went into a closed session with the lawyer because there is a potential litigation problem with the airport. That’s what I think they said.
Alice’s opinion:
It was a pretty good night. The contract with the zoning consultant is time and materials. For $43,000, the consultant is going to facilitate the meetings that need to go into a comprehensive plan, in order to be sure the layout of the Land Use Map actually reflects what the citizens want. That is, unless he spends all $43,000 before that actually happens, because his contract doesn’t have any deliverables. It’s a not to exceed. But it’s also a No Standards Specified. So when he bills $43,000, he’ll just stop showing up until we send him a new contract. But it is exactly a “borrow your watch to tell you what time it is” function. Yes, we hired a planner who is not a senior manager, and who doesn’t have years of experience, so he’s somewhat skittish, considering that he already has alligators snapping at him, and this looks like a “drain the swamp” problem. But he can do it. It may take a year, year and a half, two. So what? There is no emergency housing development pending.
I think that’s good enough. Truthfully, I think it’s going to take that long with the consultant. Plus, the consultant’s money will run out before the product is delivered. So let’s just save the $43,000 for the next “budget change” for the schools.
1. The school board needs another $40,000 or so because they missed something, I’m not sure what, something to do with a road and a cell phone tower. Mark Belton said they had it in contingency funds, it was approved.
2. The 911 system needs some people’s addresses changed. That was approved.
3. The contract for the consultant to do the Land Use Map was shown. Kevin Henry wanted them to approve the money ($43,000) and the contract (pure time and travel, no specified deliverables, just send the money based on timecards) but Tommy LaFrance said something on the order of (paraphrased and caricaturized) “why do we need to pay a consultant to borrow our watch and tell us what time it is?” And Gerald Cubbage said why do we need some outsider to tell us where to put the bubbles on the bubble map, and Carol Lee said, well, maybe we could just get a little bit of help, not this much, and Charlie Hoke said, why don’t we go talk to the Planning Commission about this again and John Rust was absent. So they tabled it, pending talking to the Planning Commission about it some more. Tommy and Gerald thought Kevin Henry was up to the job, and the job really entails input from the towns and the citizens, so what does that have to do with a consultant. Kevin said, but there’s only one of me, so it’s going to take a long time.
4. Then the aircraft personal property tax thing came up again. That hasn’t been approved yet. Earlier, before the meeting actually started, John Rogerson made a citizen comment that if they approved the tax rate on the new basis, could they potentially change it back to the old basis without a public hearing, and the lawyer said no, they couldn’t do that. But they tabled this again anyway.
5. There were some budget changes, but they were minor moving around things.
6. John Graves was appointed to the Water Quality Advisory Committee. There is also an opening on the Planning Commission, but the surprise candidate is not being announced until John Rust comes back from wherever he is, and there’s also an opening on the Economic Development Authority committee in District 3.
7. The Revenue office needs a new computer. Something about they upgraded the software and it used up all the old hardware. The old hardware was 4 years old anyway. Ancient. Anyhow this new computer cost $75,000 and it wasn’t budgeted.
8. And then there was a bunch of money that seemed to be laying around unused, so Mark was suggesting ways to use it. One way was to spend half a million dollars buying an option on land to become a Luray Business Park. Another way was to put $100,000 into a revolving loan fund that local businesses can use. This isn’t “extra”money, it’s just money that is unused cash. It’s an accounting thing. It’s about returns on money, and the best places to put it. It sounded okay. It’s like not a “spend” of money, it’s a “park” of money.
The actual meeting was shorter than the citizen comment and Supervisors Time (that’s when the Supervisors talk at the end). In citizen comments:
1. Jeff Vaughn (Shenandoah Speedway) said he’s measuring noise a certain way, and if that’s not the right way, he needs them to work with him to figure this out, because he thinks he’s following the rules, but then he gets notices saying the noise is too high, so what’s up with that?
2. Jeff Vaughn said the Supervisors need to talk to property owners about the Land Use Map not just consultants.
3. John Rogerson said what’s up with that tree you can’t cut down that you went and bought the land and got the plans and spent all that money and why can’t you rethink that instead of buying more land somewhere else.
4. John Rogerson said the school funding has a lot of things missing, this is just the beginning.
5. John Rogerson said there was a DEQ meeting about the landfill and there are violations there and the Board isn’t paying attention to them.
6. John Rogerson said what’s this about voting on the Voters Rights Act when it wasn’t on the agenda and there was no background given about it.
7. John Rogerson said why is Henry over at the dump preventing people from leaving good stuff there for other people to pick up?
8. John Rogerson said why do we have to buy land for a business park in the hopes that it will bring business. That’s like lengthening the runway in the hopes that it will bring planes. You can’t just build it and they will come.
9. Natalie Zuckerman said we need the consultant to finish up the Comprehensive Plan because it didn’t have a Land Use Map and that’s just like when they couldn’t finish the Comprehensive Plan because there was nobody to update the tables, and she updated the tables and for all her hard work she got called the “Unelected Citizen”. (Understand, the Board didn’t call her that. The Board thanked her for her work.) So they should hire a consultant because the Planning Commission needs one, and they already got together with the Planning Commission about it and the Planning Commission told them they needed one.
Then the Supervisors tried to answer some of these. Or, at least Tommy, Gerald, and Carol Lee tried. Charlie always just says, “yeah, thanks for coming.” Like a Potted Plant.
At the end, they went into a closed session with the lawyer because there is a potential litigation problem with the airport. That’s what I think they said.
Alice’s opinion:
It was a pretty good night. The contract with the zoning consultant is time and materials. For $43,000, the consultant is going to facilitate the meetings that need to go into a comprehensive plan, in order to be sure the layout of the Land Use Map actually reflects what the citizens want. That is, unless he spends all $43,000 before that actually happens, because his contract doesn’t have any deliverables. It’s a not to exceed. But it’s also a No Standards Specified. So when he bills $43,000, he’ll just stop showing up until we send him a new contract. But it is exactly a “borrow your watch to tell you what time it is” function. Yes, we hired a planner who is not a senior manager, and who doesn’t have years of experience, so he’s somewhat skittish, considering that he already has alligators snapping at him, and this looks like a “drain the swamp” problem. But he can do it. It may take a year, year and a half, two. So what? There is no emergency housing development pending.
I think that’s good enough. Truthfully, I think it’s going to take that long with the consultant. Plus, the consultant’s money will run out before the product is delivered. So let’s just save the $43,000 for the next “budget change” for the schools.
Monday, September 17, 2007
The Elephant in the Room
The Elephant in the Room (At What Price, Part 3)
There is a history in this county, that impacts the culture and the way things are perceived to be. Like it or not, that history has something, I'm not sure exactly what, to do with the Landfill. As I've looked at various actions currently, I think it looks like not only the past, but a lot of the present and the future, also have something to do with the landfill. Why? Because the landfill has in the past, and seems to be continuing in the present and the future, to be using up a considerable number of our tax dollars. I don't exactly know why yet.
I'm not talking about the 11 cents on the dollar, oh, yeah, it costs money to get rid of trash, type numbers. I'm not talking about the $400,000 a year in operating expenses plus the $600,000 a year in debt service plus the couple of million here and there that gets classified as new investment to open up new cells.
I don't actually know what I'm talking about yet. I'm still looking to find out.
Maybe someone reading this knows, and will tell me. Gary Gibbs suggested that I go get the court documents from June 2005. I'm doing that. It's in process. I've also been offered a copy of the actual contract buyout documents. But right now, I'm not quite sure what's going on. I'm just uncomfortable that the numbers and the documents I'm seeing don't have all their pieces yet.
Someone else suggested that I go back through the Board of Supervisors meetings from that time period. That would be the time period before electronic records were kept, so it would be quite difficult. Plus the meetings were closed. Perhaps someone out there would like to tell me where to look.
You see, here's what has me uncomfortable. I'm meeting the people who were around a long time, and I'm not meeting any Bad Guys. I read that Ed Kieloch book, but it didn't ring true to me. It didn't seem to present a rounded picture of what was happening, or present motivations, or describe the complexity, of how what looks like a bunch of normal and well intentioned people could have gotten into such a mess. It painted everybody as a Bad Guy, and then I met them, one by one, and they just didn't have any horns. People have flaws. They respond oddly under pressure. And they make mistakes. You can’t elect anybody to do anything, without later finding out they’re not perfect. Human beings are imperfect. Once in a while, one of them lashes out and tells the people not to touch the pastries, but things like that are just human mistakes, not actual character flaws.
It would seem like we could say, “It’s time to forget it and move on.” I would agree, but there are three reasons why we can’t.
First, we can’t forget it because we have the same names running for office or sitting in office that we had at various times during the landfill issue. Raymond Kite. Charlie Hoke. Carol Lee Strickler. Gerald Cubbage. Allen Cubbage. C R Suddith. Ron Wilson. Charlie Campbell. And more. These names appear in the past, the present, and in hopes for the future. If we don’t know what happened before, how will we prevent it from happening again?
Second, we can’t forget it because it hasn’t been fixed. That’s the part we need the contract documents to untangle. It seems it got somewhat fixed, sort of. But you can’t turn your head and look away yet. It’s not gone.
And then there’s a third reason we can’t forget it. The third reason is: you can’t forget what you never knew. People get impressions, perceptions, misunderstandings, half-truths, and just plain wrong information. It gets in their heads. And if nobody challenges it, it rots there, where it becomes a memory of something that never happened. This mistaken memory sits there where it calls and recalls emotion, which eventually triggers rage, frustration, and a sense of powerlessness. It is not empowering to fail to know. It is empowering to know. If we don’t know something, but we think we know it, that is the worst of all worlds.
Right now, in this beautiful county, full of wonderful people, we have a culture that promotes “lack of empowerment”. Because too many people think they know something that never happened. It creates a Boogeyman. It encourages fearfulness. It incubates apathy. It creates a populace that is willing to roll over and play dead. It reminds me of that old saying, “Nobody can be your boss without your permission.” The citizens are the boss of the Board of Supervisors. It’s not the other way around. A long term resident told me once, “There’s no point going in and talking to them (the Board). They just let you talk a while, and then they go do what they want to do anyway.”
Sarah, this man who said that to me was not talking about Allen Cubbage. It doesn’t matter which Board it is, or who the Chairman is. These aren’t professional politicians. They sometimes seem to the citizens to be arrogant baboons, and that is more than likely to happen, no matter who gets the job, once in a while. We just hope that the people who are elected have an intention to be kind, an intention to be responsive, and an intention to respond to the people. Even if they do, there will always be a time or two, under pressure, when it won’t look that way.
So here’s what I think.
I think we have to go back and correct the record on this landfill thing. I think we can’t let the Ed Kieloch book sit out there as the only recorded history of it, with the Karen Kwiatkowsky article as the entry point to Page County that comes up every time a tourist wants to rent a cabin. I think we can’t do well at marketing the county for business and tourism when it looks like people can expect to meet Boss Hogg and Cooter on Main Street.
I’m not talking about writing any books. I’m talking about getting the minutes of the Board meetings during the right period, getting the contract documents, and the court documents, and getting it clear and straight who did what to whom when. Summarizing it. And posting it on the Internet.
I think that’s the only way we’ll know.
Perhaps many people will say we don’t need to know, that it’s a dead horse. But I say . . . it’s a dead Elephant. And its carcass is rotting in the living room, while we all turn our eyes and our focus away from the current landfill issue, and bleed our property taxes onto the living room carpet.
So, whomever would like to help me find out . . . email Research@PageCountyWatch.org or post your clues for where to look right here.
And whomever thinks this isn’t important, just go Blog under a different post.
Alice
There is a history in this county, that impacts the culture and the way things are perceived to be. Like it or not, that history has something, I'm not sure exactly what, to do with the Landfill. As I've looked at various actions currently, I think it looks like not only the past, but a lot of the present and the future, also have something to do with the landfill. Why? Because the landfill has in the past, and seems to be continuing in the present and the future, to be using up a considerable number of our tax dollars. I don't exactly know why yet.
I'm not talking about the 11 cents on the dollar, oh, yeah, it costs money to get rid of trash, type numbers. I'm not talking about the $400,000 a year in operating expenses plus the $600,000 a year in debt service plus the couple of million here and there that gets classified as new investment to open up new cells.
I don't actually know what I'm talking about yet. I'm still looking to find out.
Maybe someone reading this knows, and will tell me. Gary Gibbs suggested that I go get the court documents from June 2005. I'm doing that. It's in process. I've also been offered a copy of the actual contract buyout documents. But right now, I'm not quite sure what's going on. I'm just uncomfortable that the numbers and the documents I'm seeing don't have all their pieces yet.
Someone else suggested that I go back through the Board of Supervisors meetings from that time period. That would be the time period before electronic records were kept, so it would be quite difficult. Plus the meetings were closed. Perhaps someone out there would like to tell me where to look.
You see, here's what has me uncomfortable. I'm meeting the people who were around a long time, and I'm not meeting any Bad Guys. I read that Ed Kieloch book, but it didn't ring true to me. It didn't seem to present a rounded picture of what was happening, or present motivations, or describe the complexity, of how what looks like a bunch of normal and well intentioned people could have gotten into such a mess. It painted everybody as a Bad Guy, and then I met them, one by one, and they just didn't have any horns. People have flaws. They respond oddly under pressure. And they make mistakes. You can’t elect anybody to do anything, without later finding out they’re not perfect. Human beings are imperfect. Once in a while, one of them lashes out and tells the people not to touch the pastries, but things like that are just human mistakes, not actual character flaws.
It would seem like we could say, “It’s time to forget it and move on.” I would agree, but there are three reasons why we can’t.
First, we can’t forget it because we have the same names running for office or sitting in office that we had at various times during the landfill issue. Raymond Kite. Charlie Hoke. Carol Lee Strickler. Gerald Cubbage. Allen Cubbage. C R Suddith. Ron Wilson. Charlie Campbell. And more. These names appear in the past, the present, and in hopes for the future. If we don’t know what happened before, how will we prevent it from happening again?
Second, we can’t forget it because it hasn’t been fixed. That’s the part we need the contract documents to untangle. It seems it got somewhat fixed, sort of. But you can’t turn your head and look away yet. It’s not gone.
And then there’s a third reason we can’t forget it. The third reason is: you can’t forget what you never knew. People get impressions, perceptions, misunderstandings, half-truths, and just plain wrong information. It gets in their heads. And if nobody challenges it, it rots there, where it becomes a memory of something that never happened. This mistaken memory sits there where it calls and recalls emotion, which eventually triggers rage, frustration, and a sense of powerlessness. It is not empowering to fail to know. It is empowering to know. If we don’t know something, but we think we know it, that is the worst of all worlds.
Right now, in this beautiful county, full of wonderful people, we have a culture that promotes “lack of empowerment”. Because too many people think they know something that never happened. It creates a Boogeyman. It encourages fearfulness. It incubates apathy. It creates a populace that is willing to roll over and play dead. It reminds me of that old saying, “Nobody can be your boss without your permission.” The citizens are the boss of the Board of Supervisors. It’s not the other way around. A long term resident told me once, “There’s no point going in and talking to them (the Board). They just let you talk a while, and then they go do what they want to do anyway.”
Sarah, this man who said that to me was not talking about Allen Cubbage. It doesn’t matter which Board it is, or who the Chairman is. These aren’t professional politicians. They sometimes seem to the citizens to be arrogant baboons, and that is more than likely to happen, no matter who gets the job, once in a while. We just hope that the people who are elected have an intention to be kind, an intention to be responsive, and an intention to respond to the people. Even if they do, there will always be a time or two, under pressure, when it won’t look that way.
So here’s what I think.
I think we have to go back and correct the record on this landfill thing. I think we can’t let the Ed Kieloch book sit out there as the only recorded history of it, with the Karen Kwiatkowsky article as the entry point to Page County that comes up every time a tourist wants to rent a cabin. I think we can’t do well at marketing the county for business and tourism when it looks like people can expect to meet Boss Hogg and Cooter on Main Street.
I’m not talking about writing any books. I’m talking about getting the minutes of the Board meetings during the right period, getting the contract documents, and the court documents, and getting it clear and straight who did what to whom when. Summarizing it. And posting it on the Internet.
I think that’s the only way we’ll know.
Perhaps many people will say we don’t need to know, that it’s a dead horse. But I say . . . it’s a dead Elephant. And its carcass is rotting in the living room, while we all turn our eyes and our focus away from the current landfill issue, and bleed our property taxes onto the living room carpet.
So, whomever would like to help me find out . . . email Research@PageCountyWatch.org or post your clues for where to look right here.
And whomever thinks this isn’t important, just go Blog under a different post.
Alice
Saturday, September 15, 2007
The Clique that Rules Page County
According to Bloggers on this site, there is a Clique ruling Page County. The members of this clique are both Republicans and Democrats, although it seems the Democrats usually just voluntarily bow out and let the Republicans primarily win. What NICE Democrats! People who run for office as either a Republican or a Democrat, are subject to being co-opted as members of this clique after they win. So if they are not members before they are elected, they become members after the election, and get enveloped in the arms of the clique, where their minds are influenced, and they change their votes, AGAINST the people, in favor of the dangerous Clique. The only people who are not subject to this seductive pressure to join are the Independents.
Folks, I didn't write that, I'm just summarizing the opinions posted on the Blog.
But this next part, I did write:
Calling on my twenty plus years as a corporate manager, and my seven years teaching Organizational Behavior at the college level . ..
that's not really as outrageous a proposition as it at first sounds.
Every group in humanity has a culture, really a subculture, that defines its “rules of behavior” and its accepted norms. This will happen in every human group, be it a family, a high school, a summer camp, an office, a farm, or a factory. In high school, which is where most of us first noticed that ‘cliques’ existed, this clique will define the measure of what it takes to be cool. Others will copy the mode of dress of the clique they wish to join, as there will be various types of cliques, and membership will center around behaviors such as dress code, language, tattoos, and risk taking. Membership in said Clique confers privileges. You are respected by others. You are associated with high prestige people. It enhances your self esteem. This is true whether the clique is a group that rides motorcycles, or a group that rabble rouses, or a group that governs. A clique runs Page County Watch. Every person chooses which cliques they join, and which cliques they aspire to join, in their daily life choices.
If you are not in the “in” clique, you will be in the “out” clique.
In a few scattered places, there will always be a Lone Ranger, who bears no allegiance, and carries his own flag. But even then, others will associate themselves with HIM, and then there’s a clique of the Lone Ranger.
When we elect our governing officials, we hope that each of them will consider US to be their clique. We hope that their clique allegiance will be to all the people they represent. If we don’t want illegal aliens in our county, we hope they will work to keep illegal aliens out. If we don’t want trucks barreling over 211, we hope they will do what it takes to keep . . . wait a minute. If we don’t want trucks, that pretty much means we don’t want business.
So now we’ve presented our elected officials with a dilemma. We do want business. But we don’t want trucks. We do want jobs. But we don’t want to change the rural nature. We’ve given them a dilemma, and a paradox. One too difficult to solve.
Now even though our elected officials have listened to us, and have wanted to make US their clique . . . they don’t know what to do. The question is too hard. And let’s not forget, these are basically volunteers. We don’t actually pay them enough to quit their day jobs to do this.
So in the time they have to work on this, they say, “what should I do?” They look around to see where to get advice and information. They look in the audience of their meetings, and who do they find? Empty seats, basically. So what else are they going to do? They can’t wait for a referendum on the ballot with every decision. They have to make decisions. So they obviously, as anyone would do, have to call on their own value system, and the people they consider to also have good judgement, which must be, would always be, their own friends. Anybody would do that. And as it happens, in a small town, where people can sit around and rock on the porch, their friends happen to also be in the Rotary Club, or fellow Republicans, or Democrats that are sitting at the next table at the Supper club. Well, who else would it be? What else would you expect them to do?
And then to those who aren’t in that circle of friends, who don’t go to those specific places, it looks like a clique.
By strict definition, it is a clique.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
So, yes, I think there is a Clique that Rules Page County. And by the nature of Humanity, there always will be. You, the voters, get the right to object to or affirm which clique the people you elect are in. If you throw out everybody who is in office right now, because you object to the clique they are in, you will get new people who are in a new clique, and then there will be a DIFFERENT clique who rules Page County. Maybe it will be better, maybe it will be worse. But it will be a clique, just the same. The trick is to get the voice of the people to be so loud it pressures whichever clique is in power to get with the program.
So, speak up and Speak Out. And most importantly, say what you say based on facts and numbers and research, whenever possible. Keep the personal attacks down, and the objective arguments up. There’s going to be a Clique that rules Page County, whether it’s this one or the next one. So give that clique what it needs to do the job right. The Clique isn’t Evil, Bad, or Corrupt. It’s just a natural phenomenon, like weather.
It’s Nature’s Law. So go with it, don’t fight it. And most importantly, don’t throw up your hands in defeat and say, “why should I vote?” Vote and Blog and Call in to the radio show. Your voice will influence the clique. Maybe you think it didn’t in the past, but it did, it just sometimes takes a while.
What do you think? Post your Comments.
Folks, I didn't write that, I'm just summarizing the opinions posted on the Blog.
But this next part, I did write:
Calling on my twenty plus years as a corporate manager, and my seven years teaching Organizational Behavior at the college level . ..
that's not really as outrageous a proposition as it at first sounds.
Every group in humanity has a culture, really a subculture, that defines its “rules of behavior” and its accepted norms. This will happen in every human group, be it a family, a high school, a summer camp, an office, a farm, or a factory. In high school, which is where most of us first noticed that ‘cliques’ existed, this clique will define the measure of what it takes to be cool. Others will copy the mode of dress of the clique they wish to join, as there will be various types of cliques, and membership will center around behaviors such as dress code, language, tattoos, and risk taking. Membership in said Clique confers privileges. You are respected by others. You are associated with high prestige people. It enhances your self esteem. This is true whether the clique is a group that rides motorcycles, or a group that rabble rouses, or a group that governs. A clique runs Page County Watch. Every person chooses which cliques they join, and which cliques they aspire to join, in their daily life choices.
If you are not in the “in” clique, you will be in the “out” clique.
In a few scattered places, there will always be a Lone Ranger, who bears no allegiance, and carries his own flag. But even then, others will associate themselves with HIM, and then there’s a clique of the Lone Ranger.
When we elect our governing officials, we hope that each of them will consider US to be their clique. We hope that their clique allegiance will be to all the people they represent. If we don’t want illegal aliens in our county, we hope they will work to keep illegal aliens out. If we don’t want trucks barreling over 211, we hope they will do what it takes to keep . . . wait a minute. If we don’t want trucks, that pretty much means we don’t want business.
So now we’ve presented our elected officials with a dilemma. We do want business. But we don’t want trucks. We do want jobs. But we don’t want to change the rural nature. We’ve given them a dilemma, and a paradox. One too difficult to solve.
Now even though our elected officials have listened to us, and have wanted to make US their clique . . . they don’t know what to do. The question is too hard. And let’s not forget, these are basically volunteers. We don’t actually pay them enough to quit their day jobs to do this.
So in the time they have to work on this, they say, “what should I do?” They look around to see where to get advice and information. They look in the audience of their meetings, and who do they find? Empty seats, basically. So what else are they going to do? They can’t wait for a referendum on the ballot with every decision. They have to make decisions. So they obviously, as anyone would do, have to call on their own value system, and the people they consider to also have good judgement, which must be, would always be, their own friends. Anybody would do that. And as it happens, in a small town, where people can sit around and rock on the porch, their friends happen to also be in the Rotary Club, or fellow Republicans, or Democrats that are sitting at the next table at the Supper club. Well, who else would it be? What else would you expect them to do?
And then to those who aren’t in that circle of friends, who don’t go to those specific places, it looks like a clique.
By strict definition, it is a clique.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
So, yes, I think there is a Clique that Rules Page County. And by the nature of Humanity, there always will be. You, the voters, get the right to object to or affirm which clique the people you elect are in. If you throw out everybody who is in office right now, because you object to the clique they are in, you will get new people who are in a new clique, and then there will be a DIFFERENT clique who rules Page County. Maybe it will be better, maybe it will be worse. But it will be a clique, just the same. The trick is to get the voice of the people to be so loud it pressures whichever clique is in power to get with the program.
So, speak up and Speak Out. And most importantly, say what you say based on facts and numbers and research, whenever possible. Keep the personal attacks down, and the objective arguments up. There’s going to be a Clique that rules Page County, whether it’s this one or the next one. So give that clique what it needs to do the job right. The Clique isn’t Evil, Bad, or Corrupt. It’s just a natural phenomenon, like weather.
It’s Nature’s Law. So go with it, don’t fight it. And most importantly, don’t throw up your hands in defeat and say, “why should I vote?” Vote and Blog and Call in to the radio show. Your voice will influence the clique. Maybe you think it didn’t in the past, but it did, it just sometimes takes a while.
What do you think? Post your Comments.
Thursday, September 13, 2007
Ideas to Stop the Bleeding
Steve Whisler made this comment and it seemed like a good start to begin a Blog Thread about possible solutions, so I'm posting it as its own Blog. Post here ideas for solutions. We can feel confident that the Supervisors will either read this here or someone will print it out for them and show it to them, eventually. And as ideas develop, people who see the Supervisors or call them, or go to public meetings, can talk about it and tell them what they think.
"Steve Whisler said:"
"All of the political rhetoric going on about the very real landfill problem is beginning to sound like a broken record of Alvin and the Chipmunks Greatest Hit.”
Droning on about who did what and when doesn’t do a thing to solve the problem. As a practical matter it is old news. The landfill is what it is. To be sure, a string of bad decisions were made leaving the county in an increasingly troublesome situation. The reality is, as someone mentioned previously, the county has to put its trash somewhere.
There was also a suggestion that the county landfill should be shut down and the entire county’s trash be transported to Culpeper for disposal. What would be cost to haul and pay “tip fees” for disposing of the county’s trash in Culpeper? How and where would you stage the trash for transport to Culpeper? Also consider that there probably would be a bit more truck traffic involved. Would that be acceptable? I guess I just don’t see Battlecreek being shut down. I am not aware of any county that doesn’t have its own landfill.
However, the suggestion to carry the county’s trash elsewhere is perhaps a clue as to where we might look for answers. It is my understanding Fauquier County has a great deal of solid waste reduction and disposal capability they have acquired using state grant money. Could not Page County do the same? If the trash has to be staged at the landfill and then carted away, why not just process it right at the landfill? Many of the technology based solutions are held out as “green” or near “green.” Some of the processes produce energy related by-products and could save some operating costs as well. There may even be a few better paying jobs created.
There seem to be real solutions readily available that Page County hasn’t yet explored. It’s probably reasonable to assume there isn’t enough county staff to do anything significant any time soon. At least not without help!
Problems aren’t solved by wringing one’s hands and continuing to proclaim “We have a problem. Damn those who created it!” Rather than continuing to beat that poor old dead horse, would it not be a better use of time and energy to look for solutions? We can continue to run in circles and watch the landfill bleed or we can do something about it. The sooner, the better!
Moving forward in the near term is possible but doing so would require a few citizens to roll up their sleeves and do a little hard work. Are there any folks out there who might be willing to help find solutions to the problems that plague the landfill?
This all leads me to a question for Jim Turner and J.D. Cave, as well as for any other candidate for Supervisor, “If you are elected, what will you do to solve the existing problems associated with the landfill?”
"Steve Whisler said:"
"All of the political rhetoric going on about the very real landfill problem is beginning to sound like a broken record of Alvin and the Chipmunks Greatest Hit.”
Droning on about who did what and when doesn’t do a thing to solve the problem. As a practical matter it is old news. The landfill is what it is. To be sure, a string of bad decisions were made leaving the county in an increasingly troublesome situation. The reality is, as someone mentioned previously, the county has to put its trash somewhere.
There was also a suggestion that the county landfill should be shut down and the entire county’s trash be transported to Culpeper for disposal. What would be cost to haul and pay “tip fees” for disposing of the county’s trash in Culpeper? How and where would you stage the trash for transport to Culpeper? Also consider that there probably would be a bit more truck traffic involved. Would that be acceptable? I guess I just don’t see Battlecreek being shut down. I am not aware of any county that doesn’t have its own landfill.
However, the suggestion to carry the county’s trash elsewhere is perhaps a clue as to where we might look for answers. It is my understanding Fauquier County has a great deal of solid waste reduction and disposal capability they have acquired using state grant money. Could not Page County do the same? If the trash has to be staged at the landfill and then carted away, why not just process it right at the landfill? Many of the technology based solutions are held out as “green” or near “green.” Some of the processes produce energy related by-products and could save some operating costs as well. There may even be a few better paying jobs created.
There seem to be real solutions readily available that Page County hasn’t yet explored. It’s probably reasonable to assume there isn’t enough county staff to do anything significant any time soon. At least not without help!
Problems aren’t solved by wringing one’s hands and continuing to proclaim “We have a problem. Damn those who created it!” Rather than continuing to beat that poor old dead horse, would it not be a better use of time and energy to look for solutions? We can continue to run in circles and watch the landfill bleed or we can do something about it. The sooner, the better!
Moving forward in the near term is possible but doing so would require a few citizens to roll up their sleeves and do a little hard work. Are there any folks out there who might be willing to help find solutions to the problems that plague the landfill?
This all leads me to a question for Jim Turner and J.D. Cave, as well as for any other candidate for Supervisor, “If you are elected, what will you do to solve the existing problems associated with the landfill?”
Tuesday, September 11, 2007
The Landfill is still bleeding.
ANONYMOUS made this post on September 11.
"Your comments, People have to get involved and pay attention to what the Board is doing, or what will happen may not be the same county and land we all appreciate so much.
This sounds like you could be talking about the Battlecreek Landfill.
People got involved; People Paid Attention; The county and land are not the same anymore! And like the people have tried to tell you over and over....their voices were simply a distant cry to the Board sitting at that time. At least, the flood plain folks had positive results with the present board. And at least the landfill is back in the hands of the county."
Everybody -- post the history here. Who did it. What did they do. I think this is not over. The landfill is still costing us money. Big money, when you compare it to our tax bill. This is not resolved.
"Your comments, People have to get involved and pay attention to what the Board is doing, or what will happen may not be the same county and land we all appreciate so much.
This sounds like you could be talking about the Battlecreek Landfill.
People got involved; People Paid Attention; The county and land are not the same anymore! And like the people have tried to tell you over and over....their voices were simply a distant cry to the Board sitting at that time. At least, the flood plain folks had positive results with the present board. And at least the landfill is back in the hands of the county."
Everybody -- post the history here. Who did it. What did they do. I think this is not over. The landfill is still costing us money. Big money, when you compare it to our tax bill. This is not resolved.
Poem War
This is the place to post poems, because Jim and J D need questions for the call in show on Friday. So please post poems here, and post questions for the District 3 Supervisors under the Speak Out area.
The Supervisors race is not about the Sheriffs race, it has its own issues. If you have things to say about the Sheriffs race, remember that you just make yourself look like a goofball unless you post facts. Name calling, while certainly a Standard of Internet Blogging, generates anger, it doesn't speak well for your argument, and it makes "your side" look like the characters from Dumb and Dumber.
So:
1. Poems Here
2. Questions for Jim and J D or the Supervisors race in general under Speak Out
3. Name calling -- don't post it.
The Supervisors race is not about the Sheriffs race, it has its own issues. If you have things to say about the Sheriffs race, remember that you just make yourself look like a goofball unless you post facts. Name calling, while certainly a Standard of Internet Blogging, generates anger, it doesn't speak well for your argument, and it makes "your side" look like the characters from Dumb and Dumber.
So:
1. Poems Here
2. Questions for Jim and J D or the Supervisors race in general under Speak Out
3. Name calling -- don't post it.
Land Use Map -- Coming Soon!
Page County Planning Commission Work Session, 10 September 2007
1. The Land Use Map work is starting soon. There is a committee forming to work with the consultants to prepare it. The committee will have some Planning Commission members on it and some citizens.The session was primarily devoted to a preliminary effort in preparation for introducing changes to the Comprehensive Plan Land Use Map. Mr. Henry made a presentation on Land Use in general. The presentation addressed land use classifications (i.e. residential, agriculture, commercial, industrial and mixed.) as well as those things that should be considered when classifying land for future use and implementation strategies.
Then he described how land use characteristics should be considered in the rezoning process such as compatibility with adjoining land uses, lot size, transportation routes, etc. The issuance of special use permits requires consideration o the same types of things. However, the restrictions put on special use permits can exceed zoning ordinance provisions.
2. The public meetings about the By Right Subdivision ordinance occurred last week. About 30 - 45 citizens attended, depending on whether you count the ones that came to both meetings twice. The committee that is working on that will be meeting beginning Thursday, September 20, in the courthouse at 7 p.m. Citizens are invited to attend, but unless you are on the committee you can't speak at the work sessions. These sessions will probably be held weekly until the recommendation is made, as there is a 100 day clock on coming up with a recommendation or at least a report.
The membership of the Comprehensive Plan Subcommittee has yet to be finalized. If I understood correctly, the intent is for its member to act as a team in concert with a land use consultant for the purpose of generating detailed land use maps. There will also be an Advisory Board to this subcommittee. YOU COULD BE ON IT! VOLUNTEER! CALL THE COUNTY AND SAY YOU WANT TO GET INVOLVED! 743-4142
If you want to know more about county land use, you can get a copy of the presentation from the county administrator’s office. It will cost you $.25 a page.
3. Jeff Judd resigned from the Planning Commission. He is in District 2. A person has been chosen to replace him, but that person will not be formally announced until John Rust can do it at a public hearing.
4. On Thursday night, there is a meeting at the courthouse about cleaning up the Hawksbill and Mill Creek. Citizens are invited.
1. The Land Use Map work is starting soon. There is a committee forming to work with the consultants to prepare it. The committee will have some Planning Commission members on it and some citizens.The session was primarily devoted to a preliminary effort in preparation for introducing changes to the Comprehensive Plan Land Use Map. Mr. Henry made a presentation on Land Use in general. The presentation addressed land use classifications (i.e. residential, agriculture, commercial, industrial and mixed.) as well as those things that should be considered when classifying land for future use and implementation strategies.
Then he described how land use characteristics should be considered in the rezoning process such as compatibility with adjoining land uses, lot size, transportation routes, etc. The issuance of special use permits requires consideration o the same types of things. However, the restrictions put on special use permits can exceed zoning ordinance provisions.
2. The public meetings about the By Right Subdivision ordinance occurred last week. About 30 - 45 citizens attended, depending on whether you count the ones that came to both meetings twice. The committee that is working on that will be meeting beginning Thursday, September 20, in the courthouse at 7 p.m. Citizens are invited to attend, but unless you are on the committee you can't speak at the work sessions. These sessions will probably be held weekly until the recommendation is made, as there is a 100 day clock on coming up with a recommendation or at least a report.
The membership of the Comprehensive Plan Subcommittee has yet to be finalized. If I understood correctly, the intent is for its member to act as a team in concert with a land use consultant for the purpose of generating detailed land use maps. There will also be an Advisory Board to this subcommittee. YOU COULD BE ON IT! VOLUNTEER! CALL THE COUNTY AND SAY YOU WANT TO GET INVOLVED! 743-4142
If you want to know more about county land use, you can get a copy of the presentation from the county administrator’s office. It will cost you $.25 a page.
3. Jeff Judd resigned from the Planning Commission. He is in District 2. A person has been chosen to replace him, but that person will not be formally announced until John Rust can do it at a public hearing.
4. On Thursday night, there is a meeting at the courthouse about cleaning up the Hawksbill and Mill Creek. Citizens are invited.
Friday, September 7, 2007
By Right Subdivision
Informational Meeting on By-right Subdivision
5 September and 6 September 2007
The county planning staff held an informational meeting at the Luray Elementary School on 5 September and the Shenandoah Elementary School on September 6.
The intent of the meeting was actually twofold:
1. First, to provide information to the citizens of the county on what a By-right Subdivision is and to identify potential problems associated with them under current county ordinance. A By-Right Subdivision provides that a land owner may subdivide a parcel of land by cutting out a portion of his property and sell it once every 2 years. There are virtually no guidelines in the current ordinance on how this may occur so there is a tendency for development of the property to be somewhat random.
2. Second, to solicit input from county citizens on how the county planning staff and planning commission might best address issues surrounding apparent shortcomings in the county ordinance that create problematic situations.
Also, there were refreshments offered for the masses! How good is that! For those who need to know – there were Oreo cookies! And fig newtons! And cheese and crackers! And other stuff, plus soda. So if you weren’t there, you missed a good time!
Mr. Henry, ably assisted by Michelle Somers, did a fine job of laying out the essence of By-Right Subdivision means and the issues the county should consider while it is being revised. They are:
1. Public Health.
Under current code, septic drainfields can be placed virtually anywhere during the subdivision process. This can result in a drainfields being located on an adjacent lot or across several lots via easements. This seems to be a big time problem. I would tend to agree that something really needs to be done.
2. Lack of a Definition of a Parent Tract.
The implications associated with not better defining a Parent Tract is difficult to explain in words. The following is but a brief outline of what has occurred under the current ordinance in a non-family By-Right Subdivision:
If Mr. X owns 100 acres, that acreage is nominally a Parent Tract. If Mr. X decides to sell a part (20 acres) of that Parent Track to Mr. Y, a new Parent Tract is created within the original Parent Track. Under the current ordinance there is a restriction on how often a tract of land can be subdivided (i.e. once every two years). That restriction would now apply to the newly created 20 acre tract. Mr. X would not be able to subdivide for two years but Mr. Y could subdivide immediately, creating yet a third Parent Tract. The two year clock is restarted for each newly created Parent Tract. This could continue to happen until subdivision is no longer possible due to the 1.75 acre minimum lot size restriction. All of this can happen without consideration of the impact on county infrastructure (i.e. roads, schools, emergency services, etc.) Since a By-Right Subdivision doesn’t require the subdivider to provide financial support for the expanded needs of the infrastructure, who will bear the cost? The property taxes of the By-Right Subdivision property owners would not be sufficient to cover associated costs to the county leaving the additional burden to be borne by the taxpayers of the county as a whole.
The second category of By-Right Subdivision is family subdivision. A land owner can give or sell portions of his property to each of his family members one time. However, once the property is subdivided, the family member can turn around and subdivide their portion again. The multiplier effect of the cycle presented above would then take over potentially creating the problems associated with non-family subdivision.
3. Poor Planning.
Having done a poor job of planning in the past, the county wants to improve how it deals with By-Right Subdivisions. The two biggies here are:
• Current development requirements do not track with the county’s Comprehensive Plan.
A lack of planning can often lead to problematic situations associated with property subdivision when a buyer really doesn’t know what they are getting when they acquire a property.
Inadequate property descriptions on permit applications describing adjacent property can lead to problems for property buyers. At present there is no requirement to show land use for property adjacent to a property that has been subdivided and offered for sale. Once someone buys the property, they may find restrictions on what they can do with the property based on the land use of adjacent properties. For example, the presence of a chicken house on an adjacent property would require a 300-foot offset that may affect a property buyer’s ability to build where they choose or to build at all.
.
The identification of property totally or partially within a floodplain should be included in subdivision permit requirements so buyers know before they buy what restrictions they might be subjected to when they do decide to build. Currently, buyers often only find out after the fact there are restrictions on what they can do with the property.
If a bank loan is involved in the building a house in a floodplain, the bank will want insurance. The construction requirements on building in a floodplain levied by FEMA come into play. The cost of flood insurance is not cheap nor is cost of building a structure in a floodplain. Again the new landowner may not discover this until after the property is purchased. Most people are not so unaware as to buy a property within eye shot of running water that they would not ask themselves “Does this area flood?” I guess it does happen, so having floodplain areas identified during the subdivision process seems to be a good idea. I might also note that under State requirements, you can’t put a septic field in an annual floodplain under any circumstance. Identification of a 100 year floodplain is one thing but most certainly annual floodplain areas should be identified as well. Due to the nature of the soil, particularly on the west side of the South Fork, if the only location for a septic field is in a floodplain, a buyer might find himself out of luck if the only place to locate a drainfield is in an annual floodplain.
• Impact Mitigation.
This refers to the need to address the impact on the county’s infrastructure (schools, roads, services, etc) that are generally encountered as the result of By-Right Subdivision. While a conventional development is required to provide consideration for the impact on the county’s infrastructure, By-Right Subdivision does not. The county assumes the cost of any impact on roads, schools and other services. Ultimately, the taxpayers are left holding the bag.
4. Private Right-of -Ways.
By-Right Subdivision often requires the creation of private right-of-ways (rights-of-way?) to access lots. However, there potentially problems associated with doing so:
• Emergency Services.
Often the access road built on private right-of-ways is not very good since it isn’t built to VDOT or county standards. In emergency situations, emergency vehicles could have a difficult time responding because access roads are poor.
• Snow Removal.
Often people who live on private access roads have the expectation that the county or VDOT will perform snow removal on private access roads. Such is not the case.
• Homeowner’s Associations.
Homeowner’s Associations tend to have a life expectancy of about 10 years. At first, everything is wonderful. They have a new road (maybe a bridge) to access their property. As time goes on the new road (or bridge) deteriorates and requires significant maintenance. Perhaps property also changes hands and the band of once happy campers are not so compatible. Property owners may stop paying association dues. Little or no money is available to pay for repairs to the road (or bridge). The cycle continues and the road is a mess. More importantly (Here comes the bridge!) the bridge collapses. The property owners in one instance would have to come up with…$7,000,000 to replace their bridge. It would not be the county or states responsibility so what do they have…no bridge and no access to their homes. Ouch!
That is pretty much the essence of what was presented at the two sessions. The citizens who attended asked a number of questions, mostly to obtain clarification on a particular point.
My general impression is that the county planning staff is really looking for assistance from the citizens to help shape the outcome of this action. Unfortunately, a relative few showed up. Without broader citizen participation there may be some people who will later say they didn’t have a say in what might ultimately fall out of all of this. If they don’t make their opinions known, others will decide for them what is to be done. At that point, I can’t say I would be particularly sympathetic.
There are also zoning ordinance implications underlying the subdivision ordinance that may follow. Of particular note is the notion that larger lot sizes might be the answer. Only for those who can afford them and pay taxes on them! The average person in this county could end up being driven out due to ever increasing taxes on property. If you want to know what can happen, check out what is currently going on in Rappahannock.
All in all, it was a good start to what will be a long process. Since there is nothing predetermined on the table at this point, now is the time for people to pay attention. People should be aware that there are significant tax implications for the county if there are not some reasonable solutions forthcoming on By-Right subdivision.
If I have misrepresented or missed anything, corrections and comments are welcomed.
Alice’s addition: There was a citizen comment about breaking up a ranch, and needing to be sure you can still put houses for the workers on the tracts that are broken up to give to family members. It is important that everything that is necessary for encouraging farming be offered and provided in any changes to the zoning ordinances. Nothing being done, I believe, is intended to harm the farmers, and care should be taken that those who want to continue farming are not inadvertently harmed by our zoning laws.
5 September and 6 September 2007
The county planning staff held an informational meeting at the Luray Elementary School on 5 September and the Shenandoah Elementary School on September 6.
The intent of the meeting was actually twofold:
1. First, to provide information to the citizens of the county on what a By-right Subdivision is and to identify potential problems associated with them under current county ordinance. A By-Right Subdivision provides that a land owner may subdivide a parcel of land by cutting out a portion of his property and sell it once every 2 years. There are virtually no guidelines in the current ordinance on how this may occur so there is a tendency for development of the property to be somewhat random.
2. Second, to solicit input from county citizens on how the county planning staff and planning commission might best address issues surrounding apparent shortcomings in the county ordinance that create problematic situations.
Also, there were refreshments offered for the masses! How good is that! For those who need to know – there were Oreo cookies! And fig newtons! And cheese and crackers! And other stuff, plus soda. So if you weren’t there, you missed a good time!
Mr. Henry, ably assisted by Michelle Somers, did a fine job of laying out the essence of By-Right Subdivision means and the issues the county should consider while it is being revised. They are:
1. Public Health.
Under current code, septic drainfields can be placed virtually anywhere during the subdivision process. This can result in a drainfields being located on an adjacent lot or across several lots via easements. This seems to be a big time problem. I would tend to agree that something really needs to be done.
2. Lack of a Definition of a Parent Tract.
The implications associated with not better defining a Parent Tract is difficult to explain in words. The following is but a brief outline of what has occurred under the current ordinance in a non-family By-Right Subdivision:
If Mr. X owns 100 acres, that acreage is nominally a Parent Tract. If Mr. X decides to sell a part (20 acres) of that Parent Track to Mr. Y, a new Parent Tract is created within the original Parent Track. Under the current ordinance there is a restriction on how often a tract of land can be subdivided (i.e. once every two years). That restriction would now apply to the newly created 20 acre tract. Mr. X would not be able to subdivide for two years but Mr. Y could subdivide immediately, creating yet a third Parent Tract. The two year clock is restarted for each newly created Parent Tract. This could continue to happen until subdivision is no longer possible due to the 1.75 acre minimum lot size restriction. All of this can happen without consideration of the impact on county infrastructure (i.e. roads, schools, emergency services, etc.) Since a By-Right Subdivision doesn’t require the subdivider to provide financial support for the expanded needs of the infrastructure, who will bear the cost? The property taxes of the By-Right Subdivision property owners would not be sufficient to cover associated costs to the county leaving the additional burden to be borne by the taxpayers of the county as a whole.
The second category of By-Right Subdivision is family subdivision. A land owner can give or sell portions of his property to each of his family members one time. However, once the property is subdivided, the family member can turn around and subdivide their portion again. The multiplier effect of the cycle presented above would then take over potentially creating the problems associated with non-family subdivision.
3. Poor Planning.
Having done a poor job of planning in the past, the county wants to improve how it deals with By-Right Subdivisions. The two biggies here are:
• Current development requirements do not track with the county’s Comprehensive Plan.
A lack of planning can often lead to problematic situations associated with property subdivision when a buyer really doesn’t know what they are getting when they acquire a property.
Inadequate property descriptions on permit applications describing adjacent property can lead to problems for property buyers. At present there is no requirement to show land use for property adjacent to a property that has been subdivided and offered for sale. Once someone buys the property, they may find restrictions on what they can do with the property based on the land use of adjacent properties. For example, the presence of a chicken house on an adjacent property would require a 300-foot offset that may affect a property buyer’s ability to build where they choose or to build at all.
.
The identification of property totally or partially within a floodplain should be included in subdivision permit requirements so buyers know before they buy what restrictions they might be subjected to when they do decide to build. Currently, buyers often only find out after the fact there are restrictions on what they can do with the property.
If a bank loan is involved in the building a house in a floodplain, the bank will want insurance. The construction requirements on building in a floodplain levied by FEMA come into play. The cost of flood insurance is not cheap nor is cost of building a structure in a floodplain. Again the new landowner may not discover this until after the property is purchased. Most people are not so unaware as to buy a property within eye shot of running water that they would not ask themselves “Does this area flood?” I guess it does happen, so having floodplain areas identified during the subdivision process seems to be a good idea. I might also note that under State requirements, you can’t put a septic field in an annual floodplain under any circumstance. Identification of a 100 year floodplain is one thing but most certainly annual floodplain areas should be identified as well. Due to the nature of the soil, particularly on the west side of the South Fork, if the only location for a septic field is in a floodplain, a buyer might find himself out of luck if the only place to locate a drainfield is in an annual floodplain.
• Impact Mitigation.
This refers to the need to address the impact on the county’s infrastructure (schools, roads, services, etc) that are generally encountered as the result of By-Right Subdivision. While a conventional development is required to provide consideration for the impact on the county’s infrastructure, By-Right Subdivision does not. The county assumes the cost of any impact on roads, schools and other services. Ultimately, the taxpayers are left holding the bag.
4. Private Right-of -Ways.
By-Right Subdivision often requires the creation of private right-of-ways (rights-of-way?) to access lots. However, there potentially problems associated with doing so:
• Emergency Services.
Often the access road built on private right-of-ways is not very good since it isn’t built to VDOT or county standards. In emergency situations, emergency vehicles could have a difficult time responding because access roads are poor.
• Snow Removal.
Often people who live on private access roads have the expectation that the county or VDOT will perform snow removal on private access roads. Such is not the case.
• Homeowner’s Associations.
Homeowner’s Associations tend to have a life expectancy of about 10 years. At first, everything is wonderful. They have a new road (maybe a bridge) to access their property. As time goes on the new road (or bridge) deteriorates and requires significant maintenance. Perhaps property also changes hands and the band of once happy campers are not so compatible. Property owners may stop paying association dues. Little or no money is available to pay for repairs to the road (or bridge). The cycle continues and the road is a mess. More importantly (Here comes the bridge!) the bridge collapses. The property owners in one instance would have to come up with…$7,000,000 to replace their bridge. It would not be the county or states responsibility so what do they have…no bridge and no access to their homes. Ouch!
That is pretty much the essence of what was presented at the two sessions. The citizens who attended asked a number of questions, mostly to obtain clarification on a particular point.
My general impression is that the county planning staff is really looking for assistance from the citizens to help shape the outcome of this action. Unfortunately, a relative few showed up. Without broader citizen participation there may be some people who will later say they didn’t have a say in what might ultimately fall out of all of this. If they don’t make their opinions known, others will decide for them what is to be done. At that point, I can’t say I would be particularly sympathetic.
There are also zoning ordinance implications underlying the subdivision ordinance that may follow. Of particular note is the notion that larger lot sizes might be the answer. Only for those who can afford them and pay taxes on them! The average person in this county could end up being driven out due to ever increasing taxes on property. If you want to know what can happen, check out what is currently going on in Rappahannock.
All in all, it was a good start to what will be a long process. Since there is nothing predetermined on the table at this point, now is the time for people to pay attention. People should be aware that there are significant tax implications for the county if there are not some reasonable solutions forthcoming on By-Right subdivision.
If I have misrepresented or missed anything, corrections and comments are welcomed.
Alice’s addition: There was a citizen comment about breaking up a ranch, and needing to be sure you can still put houses for the workers on the tracts that are broken up to give to family members. It is important that everything that is necessary for encouraging farming be offered and provided in any changes to the zoning ordinances. Nothing being done, I believe, is intended to harm the farmers, and care should be taken that those who want to continue farming are not inadvertently harmed by our zoning laws.
Wednesday, September 5, 2007
BOS Work Session 4Sep07
1. Request to Address the Board of Supervisors.
Mr. Jeff Vaughan had requested an opportunity to speak to the Board regarding his pending appeal of the decision of the County Administrator to issue a Special Use Permit violation. Apparently the appeal must be filed within 30 days of being notified of the violation. However, Mr. Vaughan was not aware of how the appeal process worked. The county will start the 30 day clock once Mr. Vaughan is provided with information on how to proceed with the appeal process.
Mr. Vaughan did not appear to speak to the Board as he had requested.
2. Monthly Report from the Public Works Department.
Mr. Mikus gave his usual report on happenings with the Public Works Department. Of particular note was his report on the progress of the opening of Cell 9 at the landfill. The specs have been prepared to begin the process. The have to be approved by the USDA before an invitation for bids can be issued. Once approved, and the bidding process is completed and bids are received, the details of the pricing structure will also have to be approved by USDA. I got a little confused here. If I understood correctly, there will need to be a Public Hearing before a contract can be awarded.
Also, apparently there is a leak problem at the Stanley landfill. The lack of detailed information on how the landfill was initially set up had caused something of a problem in the initial attempts to fix the problem. The Public Works folks believe they have stopped the leak.
Mr. Mikus also noted that a house has been constructed near the landfill. While there was nothing wrong with construction of the house, apparently it does pose some problems for the county. Mr. Mikus would like to address this matter to prevent the creation of more problems. I presume somewhere in the land use or zoning process.
3. Review of VDOT Chapter 527 Legislation.Mr. Henry addressed the Board on new state legislation that would seem to require a review of road construction plans (?) by VDOT. Apparently the requirement is supposed to be included in the county’s Comprehensive Plan. I gathered that Page County is already pretty much in compliance with the requirement. Apparently, the requirement will affect the towns in Page County more than the county itself. The legislation is so new that there will be training on what it means.
4. Discussion of Opting Out of Voter’s Rights Act.
This issue is not as onerous as it may sound. A number of sister counties have already opted out of the Voter’s Rights Act. Apparently, the Federal government requires that any issue that is offered for vote to the people of the county must be reviewed and approved by the Department of Justice. This would include things that are offered to the voters by referendum like staggered terms for the School Board membership, the addition of an At-Large Chairman to the School Board, etc. All current issues that require the DOJ review have been blessed by DOJ.
There is already a requirement for receiving approval from the State before offering an issue to the voters as a referendum. The power to the Board flows from Richmond. It seems that the DOJ process is an unnecessary overlay to the State requirement.
The action will require that Page County apply to DOJ to do so. Apparently this requires the retention of a Washington, D. C. based attorney that specializes in this type of action. If I heard correctly, the action would result in a one-time cost somewhere between $5,000 and $15,000. It was suggested that the one-time cost would result in a long term savings to the county since there would be no need to process future requests of approval to DOJ.
This action seems to be in its early stages as is for the purpose of gathering additional information and not to spend money. Mr. Shanks was asking the Board for an O.K. to proceed with pursuit of the matter. I couldn’t quite make out what was being chatted about but it appeared that the Board gave Mr. Shanks the nod to go forward.
I suffered from the same difficulty as Mr. LaFrance (and probably all of the Board members). Legalese overload! I trust I have captured the essence of the discussion.
5. Drug Free Workplace Policy.
This is something of a puzzle. It would seem the overall county government’s policy on drug and alcohol use in the workplace is lacking. I also gather each constitutional entity has its own policy. Apparently Mr. Belton and Dr. Cardman have drafted a proposed policy document. The main concern with the document is with invasion of privacy issues regarding method of testing, with random testing suggested as the best solution.
However, due to concerns with safety in the workplace, there may be a need to deal with those county employees who operate heavy equipment differently than people who do clerical work.
The Board may want to look at the School Board’s policy rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.
6. Illegal Immigrant Resolution.
Apparently there have been incidents where students who are illegal aliens are occupying available slots in State universities and paying in-state tuition. Supervisor Strickler wants to ensure that the resolution address the issue to ensure that Virginia residents receive equal or preferential treatment when they apply for acceptance to state institutions of higher learning.
Apparently there is a state law that if an education institution receives Federal funding, it can’t charge illegal aliens in-state tuition. I may have this a little wrong but Mr. Shanks also pointed to an existing law that prohibits illegal immigrants from being admitted to institutions of higher learning that receive government funding. The question is how would you know who is illegal and who isn’t. It was suggested that the immigration department would know.
This was a little muddled to me. Since laws already exist regarding the issue, I assume the intent here was to ensure the county’s resolution simply addressed the matter.
The Board moved to go into closed session to discuss various issues as permitted by Virginia Code.
Mr. Jeff Vaughan had requested an opportunity to speak to the Board regarding his pending appeal of the decision of the County Administrator to issue a Special Use Permit violation. Apparently the appeal must be filed within 30 days of being notified of the violation. However, Mr. Vaughan was not aware of how the appeal process worked. The county will start the 30 day clock once Mr. Vaughan is provided with information on how to proceed with the appeal process.
Mr. Vaughan did not appear to speak to the Board as he had requested.
2. Monthly Report from the Public Works Department.
Mr. Mikus gave his usual report on happenings with the Public Works Department. Of particular note was his report on the progress of the opening of Cell 9 at the landfill. The specs have been prepared to begin the process. The have to be approved by the USDA before an invitation for bids can be issued. Once approved, and the bidding process is completed and bids are received, the details of the pricing structure will also have to be approved by USDA. I got a little confused here. If I understood correctly, there will need to be a Public Hearing before a contract can be awarded.
Also, apparently there is a leak problem at the Stanley landfill. The lack of detailed information on how the landfill was initially set up had caused something of a problem in the initial attempts to fix the problem. The Public Works folks believe they have stopped the leak.
Mr. Mikus also noted that a house has been constructed near the landfill. While there was nothing wrong with construction of the house, apparently it does pose some problems for the county. Mr. Mikus would like to address this matter to prevent the creation of more problems. I presume somewhere in the land use or zoning process.
3. Review of VDOT Chapter 527 Legislation.Mr. Henry addressed the Board on new state legislation that would seem to require a review of road construction plans (?) by VDOT. Apparently the requirement is supposed to be included in the county’s Comprehensive Plan. I gathered that Page County is already pretty much in compliance with the requirement. Apparently, the requirement will affect the towns in Page County more than the county itself. The legislation is so new that there will be training on what it means.
4. Discussion of Opting Out of Voter’s Rights Act.
This issue is not as onerous as it may sound. A number of sister counties have already opted out of the Voter’s Rights Act. Apparently, the Federal government requires that any issue that is offered for vote to the people of the county must be reviewed and approved by the Department of Justice. This would include things that are offered to the voters by referendum like staggered terms for the School Board membership, the addition of an At-Large Chairman to the School Board, etc. All current issues that require the DOJ review have been blessed by DOJ.
There is already a requirement for receiving approval from the State before offering an issue to the voters as a referendum. The power to the Board flows from Richmond. It seems that the DOJ process is an unnecessary overlay to the State requirement.
The action will require that Page County apply to DOJ to do so. Apparently this requires the retention of a Washington, D. C. based attorney that specializes in this type of action. If I heard correctly, the action would result in a one-time cost somewhere between $5,000 and $15,000. It was suggested that the one-time cost would result in a long term savings to the county since there would be no need to process future requests of approval to DOJ.
This action seems to be in its early stages as is for the purpose of gathering additional information and not to spend money. Mr. Shanks was asking the Board for an O.K. to proceed with pursuit of the matter. I couldn’t quite make out what was being chatted about but it appeared that the Board gave Mr. Shanks the nod to go forward.
I suffered from the same difficulty as Mr. LaFrance (and probably all of the Board members). Legalese overload! I trust I have captured the essence of the discussion.
5. Drug Free Workplace Policy.
This is something of a puzzle. It would seem the overall county government’s policy on drug and alcohol use in the workplace is lacking. I also gather each constitutional entity has its own policy. Apparently Mr. Belton and Dr. Cardman have drafted a proposed policy document. The main concern with the document is with invasion of privacy issues regarding method of testing, with random testing suggested as the best solution.
However, due to concerns with safety in the workplace, there may be a need to deal with those county employees who operate heavy equipment differently than people who do clerical work.
The Board may want to look at the School Board’s policy rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.
6. Illegal Immigrant Resolution.
Apparently there have been incidents where students who are illegal aliens are occupying available slots in State universities and paying in-state tuition. Supervisor Strickler wants to ensure that the resolution address the issue to ensure that Virginia residents receive equal or preferential treatment when they apply for acceptance to state institutions of higher learning.
Apparently there is a state law that if an education institution receives Federal funding, it can’t charge illegal aliens in-state tuition. I may have this a little wrong but Mr. Shanks also pointed to an existing law that prohibits illegal immigrants from being admitted to institutions of higher learning that receive government funding. The question is how would you know who is illegal and who isn’t. It was suggested that the immigration department would know.
This was a little muddled to me. Since laws already exist regarding the issue, I assume the intent here was to ensure the county’s resolution simply addressed the matter.
The Board moved to go into closed session to discuss various issues as permitted by Virginia Code.
Tuesday, September 4, 2007
This is very disturbing
For the Speak Out radio show, I've invited all the candidates to come on and speak. So to kick off the program, I thought it would be good to have our new Registrar give us a summary of the elections process: how it works, and how we can feel confident that our votes count. I called the Registrar, Carol Gaunt, last week and invited her on the show.
As Carol is new, she at first suggested that one of the members of the Electoral Board appear with her, and I thought that was a great idea. She said she had to check with them before committing, which is a reasonable response. The next day, she told me that they "checked with the state board of elections" who told them she could only appear if
a) there were no call-ins allowed
b) she had the questions in advance
c) the interview was taped.
I said we couldn't tape the interview, but I would agree to allow no call ins and give her the questions in advance. She said that would probably be okay. Over the weekend, I emailed her the questions.
Here are the questions I sent:
Questions for Carol Gaunt
1. What is your background (resume)?
2. What are the responsibilities of the Registrar?
3. Who is on the Electoral Board, and how are they appointed? How long have they been on the Board? What are their responsibilities?
4. How many registered voters do we have in Page County?
5. How many people usually come out to vote?
6. How are the votes counted? What is the process for counting them?
7. What about the computer votes? How are they counted? How do the computer votes and the paper ballots get added together?
8. Are the computer votes safe? Are we sure they are being counted correctly? If we have to have a recount, would we be able to do it?
9. What is the procedure for making sure our voting process is clean? Would it be possible for dead people to vote? Would it be possible for illegal aliens to vote? How do we make sure people are only voting one time?
10. How are absentee ballots counted? How do we know they are really coming from the person who is registered?
11. What would you like to say to the listeners about the voting process?
On Tuesday morning, I received an email back from Carol, stating that after further consultations, she would be unable to participate in the broadcast. Her reason is that the timing takes her away from the office during a busy election season.
Now. What I have posted here is a set of facts. If I were speculating, I would say that the voters are not being well served by being told that the Registrar doesn't have time to kick off an informational meeting about the process of the elections. Or that the Registrar doesn't have time to answer questions about the voting process and its integrity.
What do you think? Blog here about your assessment of what just happened, and also tune in to the Speak Out radio show on Friday at 9 a.m., 1330 AM. Call in to the show with your opinion, on 743-5167.
Alice
As Carol is new, she at first suggested that one of the members of the Electoral Board appear with her, and I thought that was a great idea. She said she had to check with them before committing, which is a reasonable response. The next day, she told me that they "checked with the state board of elections" who told them she could only appear if
a) there were no call-ins allowed
b) she had the questions in advance
c) the interview was taped.
I said we couldn't tape the interview, but I would agree to allow no call ins and give her the questions in advance. She said that would probably be okay. Over the weekend, I emailed her the questions.
Here are the questions I sent:
Questions for Carol Gaunt
1. What is your background (resume)?
2. What are the responsibilities of the Registrar?
3. Who is on the Electoral Board, and how are they appointed? How long have they been on the Board? What are their responsibilities?
4. How many registered voters do we have in Page County?
5. How many people usually come out to vote?
6. How are the votes counted? What is the process for counting them?
7. What about the computer votes? How are they counted? How do the computer votes and the paper ballots get added together?
8. Are the computer votes safe? Are we sure they are being counted correctly? If we have to have a recount, would we be able to do it?
9. What is the procedure for making sure our voting process is clean? Would it be possible for dead people to vote? Would it be possible for illegal aliens to vote? How do we make sure people are only voting one time?
10. How are absentee ballots counted? How do we know they are really coming from the person who is registered?
11. What would you like to say to the listeners about the voting process?
On Tuesday morning, I received an email back from Carol, stating that after further consultations, she would be unable to participate in the broadcast. Her reason is that the timing takes her away from the office during a busy election season.
Now. What I have posted here is a set of facts. If I were speculating, I would say that the voters are not being well served by being told that the Registrar doesn't have time to kick off an informational meeting about the process of the elections. Or that the Registrar doesn't have time to answer questions about the voting process and its integrity.
What do you think? Blog here about your assessment of what just happened, and also tune in to the Speak Out radio show on Friday at 9 a.m., 1330 AM. Call in to the show with your opinion, on 743-5167.
Alice
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