And it's "Not in My Backyard"

With not much more to say, the Town Council of Luray voted unanimously to deny Shenandoah Waste Services permission to locate in the industrial park. (See the thread "What's the Deal?")

Although some council members visited a similar facility and were disappointed, SWS maintains that the facility they visited was not as similar as they believed, and did not represent the operations that SWS is proposing.

The next move is up to the county now. SWS is currently operating in the county, and it would take a change to the zoning ordinance -- something in process in varying degrees anyway in the county -- to let it continue to operate in its current location.

Both EMCO and the DEQ are supportive of this operation.

What's the Deal?

The Salyards Business. What's the Deal?

Is this good for Page County or is it bad? What do we know about it?

Email Research@PageCountyWatch.org and let us know. The Town Council votes Tuesday night. Are they going to let a new business in, and bring jobs? Or are they going to chase it away?

Why or why not? Post what you know.

Jody sent this information in. I have signed his online petition. The link is here for anyone else who wants to. Also, the phone numbers of the town council members are here so you can call them and express your opinion.

Dear Alice,


Thank you so much for the opportunity to express our views this morning on you show. Here is some basic information about our proposed facility.


Shenandoah Waste Services, llc is requesting a special use permit to operate a Materials Recovery Center in the Town of Luray, Virginia, on the north side of Stoney Brook Lane, south of U.S. Route 211, and north of the present location of the EMCO Enterprises manufacturing facility. This project will create 80 new jobs paying over $30,000 per year for the people of Page County, help protect the 280 jobs at Emco, and place Page County on the forefront of environmental responsibility. The proposed facility will not operate as a transfer station, will comply with all state and federal environmental laws, and lengthen the life of our current landfill. This facility will attract other industry to the County of Page creating future Job growth so that the people of Page County are not forced to commute outside the county for employment. Our main concentration is to help manufacturing facilities obtain waste free status by recycling there cardboard, wood, ferrous and nonferrous metals, plastics, drywall, and shingles. all operations will be indoors, there will be no processing of garbage, hazardous waste or infectious waste. The plant will help local builders be able to achieve green building credits. We urge all of the constituents of the Town of Luray and the County of Page to contact the staff , mayor, and members of the town council of Luray to express you support the Council will vote on this request Tuesday October the 9th.

Also please sign our online petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/sws10909/petition.html
Mayor of the Town of Luray

Ralph H. Dean 540-743-3208

Luray Town Council

Barry Presgraves 540-743-5326

William Menefee 540-743-7721

Lonnie Arrington 540-743-2556

Earl L. “Rock” Racer 540-743-5439

Nancy Lee Shifflett 540-743-6709

Leroy Lancaster 540-743-5072

Town Planner

Ligon Webb 540-743-5511

Town Manager

Rick Black 540-743-5511

The Davenport Study

While we're on the subject of consultants reports (see Buracker Study), who knows something about the Davenport Study in 2002 or 2003? This was a study about the costs of the schools and how to pay for them. With the School Board radio show coming up on October 5, now might be the time to dredge THAT up.

I posted the research I did about the landfill for the September 21, SPEAK OUT. You can find it here.

The reason this is important is because many of the same names are up for election. Read that in connection with your candidate choices. The names associated are: Raymond Kite, Gerald Cubbage, Allen Cubbage, Charlie Campbell, and Ron Wilson. Don't vote on rumor. Read the Minutes Book first.

Throwing Away Money

This was posted by Barky Von Schnauzer farther down under another topic. But it is important. We do not have the money to pay for this landfill to continue. And yet it continues. We have about 20 Tons of trash a day in page County.

GUEST BLOG

On the subject of the landfill it does seem that we are not breaking even, with large equipment purchases (Compactor, etc.) and only receiving 100 tons of waste per day and all the ongoing monitoring costs, both gas and ground water monitoring. Keep in mind it takes approximately 200-250 tons of trash per day, paying tons to break even, with a Sub-Title D Landfill. In addition, we have the on-going post closure costs of the Stanley Landfill, this landfill (and many like it) called HB 1205, as in House Bill 1205 is an unlined facility. So chances are there will be additional costs associated with remediation, check out the Ivy landfill in Albermarle County, they are curently in GPS (Ground Water Protection Standards), this is a remeadiation process to abate and take care of any ground water problems the landfill is/or has caused. We have 30 years of post closure care at Stanley. The county already has a passive system for burning off gas the old candle sticks as they have been called, as well as they manage an active gas extraction system which pulls methane gas from the Stanley Landfill, this is the active system. I beleive the county is only in about the 5th or 6th year in post closure care at Stanley. And again this is an unlined facility, Battle Creek is a lined facility meaning a compsoite liner is used to protect the ground, however EPA can not without a doubt say that even a lined landfill will not leak at some point in the future. The solid waste management regs are constantly being amended and changed and their has been discussion to make monitoring 50 years instead of 30 years. Where I am going with this is that costs are going to be ongoing for a long time with both landfills. To close Battle Creek, would mean the start of 30 years of ongoing post closure care while we would still have 24 to 25 years of post closure care at Stanley, and we would still have to construct a Transfer station, which has ongoing costs as well. Hind sight being 20/20 as they say, we should have closed the landfill that is Stanley back in 1994 when post closure requirements were only 10 years in length and not 30, we could have constructed a transfer station, handled only the waste generated in Page County, know that all the waste prior to 1994 would have been only Page Conty's trash being deposited at the Stanley landfill. Ths is what Warren County did, they closed their landfill prior to 1994 constructed a transfer station, and only had to monitor their facility (Landfill) for 10 years. And even with a transfer station, in addition to operational costs their would be transportation costs to Culpeper and that is even if they were allowed by their permit to accept waste from Page County. What is funny to me is their is a transfer station (Warren County's in Bentonville) less than 20 miles from Battle Creek taking their waste almost three hours to a landfill in Richmond. We should be opening up discussions again with Warren County to get their waste (approximately 100-110 tons per day) so we could at least maybe break even. They have quality municipal waste such as Page, and it seems we could offset their transportation cost (traveling 3 hours) to about 30 minutes and offer Warren County a tipping fee palitable to them and Page as well. Again we are only receiving about 100 or so tons now while I believe all three towns are dumping for free in this 100 tons. What is even more interesting, is to follow the Waste Management truck(s) outside of the town limits and watch them pick up green and blue containers and put them in the same truck as the "free" town waste, who is paying for that trash, our tax $$$. What is even more interesting is the businesses who have green/blue trash containers whos trash also goes into the waste management truck, so if we (County tax payers) are really paying for the towns residents to dump for free while are their residents outside of the town as well as businesses dumping in the "free" truck. If this is the case why have conveience sites, allow the WM truck to pick up trash at every household in Page County, on our tax paying tab. Just food for thought to go along with the Crooked County Book and Marvin Bush

The Elephant in the Room

The Elephant in the Room (At What Price, Part 3)

There is a history in this county, that impacts the culture and the way things are perceived to be. Like it or not, that history has something, I'm not sure exactly what, to do with the Landfill. As I've looked at various actions currently, I think it looks like not only the past, but a lot of the present and the future, also have something to do with the landfill. Why? Because the landfill has in the past, and seems to be continuing in the present and the future, to be using up a considerable number of our tax dollars. I don't exactly know why yet.

I'm not talking about the 11 cents on the dollar, oh, yeah, it costs money to get rid of trash, type numbers. I'm not talking about the $400,000 a year in operating expenses plus the $600,000 a year in debt service plus the couple of million here and there that gets classified as new investment to open up new cells.
I don't actually know what I'm talking about yet. I'm still looking to find out.

Maybe someone reading this knows, and will tell me. Gary Gibbs suggested that I go get the court documents from June 2005. I'm doing that. It's in process. I've also been offered a copy of the actual contract buyout documents. But right now, I'm not quite sure what's going on. I'm just uncomfortable that the numbers and the documents I'm seeing don't have all their pieces yet.

Someone else suggested that I go back through the Board of Supervisors meetings from that time period. That would be the time period before electronic records were kept, so it would be quite difficult. Plus the meetings were closed. Perhaps someone out there would like to tell me where to look.

You see, here's what has me uncomfortable. I'm meeting the people who were around a long time, and I'm not meeting any Bad Guys. I read that Ed Kieloch book, but it didn't ring true to me. It didn't seem to present a rounded picture of what was happening, or present motivations, or describe the complexity, of how what looks like a bunch of normal and well intentioned people could have gotten into such a mess. It painted everybody as a Bad Guy, and then I met them, one by one, and they just didn't have any horns. People have flaws. They respond oddly under pressure. And they make mistakes. You can’t elect anybody to do anything, without later finding out they’re not perfect. Human beings are imperfect. Once in a while, one of them lashes out and tells the people not to touch the pastries, but things like that are just human mistakes, not actual character flaws.

It would seem like we could say, “It’s time to forget it and move on.” I would agree, but there are three reasons why we can’t.

First, we can’t forget it because we have the same names running for office or sitting in office that we had at various times during the landfill issue. Raymond Kite. Charlie Hoke. Carol Lee Strickler. Gerald Cubbage. Allen Cubbage. C R Suddith. Ron Wilson. Charlie Campbell. And more. These names appear in the past, the present, and in hopes for the future. If we don’t know what happened before, how will we prevent it from happening again?

Second, we can’t forget it because it hasn’t been fixed. That’s the part we need the contract documents to untangle. It seems it got somewhat fixed, sort of. But you can’t turn your head and look away yet. It’s not gone.

And then there’s a third reason we can’t forget it. The third reason is: you can’t forget what you never knew. People get impressions, perceptions, misunderstandings, half-truths, and just plain wrong information. It gets in their heads. And if nobody challenges it, it rots there, where it becomes a memory of something that never happened. This mistaken memory sits there where it calls and recalls emotion, which eventually triggers rage, frustration, and a sense of powerlessness. It is not empowering to fail to know. It is empowering to know. If we don’t know something, but we think we know it, that is the worst of all worlds.

Right now, in this beautiful county, full of wonderful people, we have a culture that promotes “lack of empowerment”. Because too many people think they know something that never happened. It creates a Boogeyman. It encourages fearfulness. It incubates apathy. It creates a populace that is willing to roll over and play dead. It reminds me of that old saying, “Nobody can be your boss without your permission.” The citizens are the boss of the Board of Supervisors. It’s not the other way around. A long term resident told me once, “There’s no point going in and talking to them (the Board). They just let you talk a while, and then they go do what they want to do anyway.”

Sarah, this man who said that to me was not talking about Allen Cubbage. It doesn’t matter which Board it is, or who the Chairman is. These aren’t professional politicians. They sometimes seem to the citizens to be arrogant baboons, and that is more than likely to happen, no matter who gets the job, once in a while. We just hope that the people who are elected have an intention to be kind, an intention to be responsive, and an intention to respond to the people. Even if they do, there will always be a time or two, under pressure, when it won’t look that way.

So here’s what I think.

I think we have to go back and correct the record on this landfill thing. I think we can’t let the Ed Kieloch book sit out there as the only recorded history of it, with the Karen Kwiatkowsky article as the entry point to Page County that comes up every time a tourist wants to rent a cabin. I think we can’t do well at marketing the county for business and tourism when it looks like people can expect to meet Boss Hogg and Cooter on Main Street.

I’m not talking about writing any books. I’m talking about getting the minutes of the Board meetings during the right period, getting the contract documents, and the court documents, and getting it clear and straight who did what to whom when. Summarizing it. And posting it on the Internet.

I think that’s the only way we’ll know.

Perhaps many people will say we don’t need to know, that it’s a dead horse. But I say . . . it’s a dead Elephant. And its carcass is rotting in the living room, while we all turn our eyes and our focus away from the current landfill issue, and bleed our property taxes onto the living room carpet.

So, whomever would like to help me find out . . . email Research@PageCountyWatch.org or post your clues for where to look right here.

And whomever thinks this isn’t important, just go Blog under a different post.

Alice

Ideas to Stop the Bleeding

Steve Whisler made this comment and it seemed like a good start to begin a Blog Thread about possible solutions, so I'm posting it as its own Blog. Post here ideas for solutions. We can feel confident that the Supervisors will either read this here or someone will print it out for them and show it to them, eventually. And as ideas develop, people who see the Supervisors or call them, or go to public meetings, can talk about it and tell them what they think.

"Steve Whisler said:"
"All of the political rhetoric going on about the very real landfill problem is beginning to sound like a broken record of Alvin and the Chipmunks Greatest Hit.”

Droning on about who did what and when doesn’t do a thing to solve the problem. As a practical matter it is old news. The landfill is what it is. To be sure, a string of bad decisions were made leaving the county in an increasingly troublesome situation. The reality is, as someone mentioned previously, the county has to put its trash somewhere.

There was also a suggestion that the county landfill should be shut down and the entire county’s trash be transported to Culpeper for disposal. What would be cost to haul and pay “tip fees” for disposing of the county’s trash in Culpeper? How and where would you stage the trash for transport to Culpeper? Also consider that there probably would be a bit more truck traffic involved. Would that be acceptable? I guess I just don’t see Battlecreek being shut down. I am not aware of any county that doesn’t have its own landfill.

However, the suggestion to carry the county’s trash elsewhere is perhaps a clue as to where we might look for answers. It is my understanding Fauquier County has a great deal of solid waste reduction and disposal capability they have acquired using state grant money. Could not Page County do the same? If the trash has to be staged at the landfill and then carted away, why not just process it right at the landfill? Many of the technology based solutions are held out as “green” or near “green.” Some of the processes produce energy related by-products and could save some operating costs as well. There may even be a few better paying jobs created.

There seem to be real solutions readily available that Page County hasn’t yet explored. It’s probably reasonable to assume there isn’t enough county staff to do anything significant any time soon. At least not without help!

Problems aren’t solved by wringing one’s hands and continuing to proclaim “We have a problem. Damn those who created it!” Rather than continuing to beat that poor old dead horse, would it not be a better use of time and energy to look for solutions? We can continue to run in circles and watch the landfill bleed or we can do something about it. The sooner, the better!

Moving forward in the near term is possible but doing so would require a few citizens to roll up their sleeves and do a little hard work. Are there any folks out there who might be willing to help find solutions to the problems that plague the landfill?

This all leads me to a question for Jim Turner and J.D. Cave, as well as for any other candidate for Supervisor, “If you are elected, what will you do to solve the existing problems associated with the landfill?”

The Landfill is still bleeding.

ANONYMOUS made this post on September 11.

"Your comments, People have to get involved and pay attention to what the Board is doing, or what will happen may not be the same county and land we all appreciate so much.

This sounds like you could be talking about the Battlecreek Landfill.

People got involved; People Paid Attention; The county and land are not the same anymore! And like the people have tried to tell you over and over....their voices were simply a distant cry to the Board sitting at that time. At least, the flood plain folks had positive results with the present board. And at least the landfill is back in the hands of the county."

Everybody -- post the history here. Who did it. What did they do. I think this is not over. The landfill is still costing us money. Big money, when you compare it to our tax bill. This is not resolved.

Quiet Time

It's a quiet time at the Board of Supervisors. The big controversy over the flood plain ordinance is over. The Comprehensive Plan is what it is, and the amendments made satisfied the worst objections. The County Attorney missed out on his big chance to get extra extra rich defending the county over the flood plain lawsuits. And Charlie Hoke figured out what he could say that would make him sound like he was in tune with the will of the People.

At the end of the last Board meeting, Supervisor Hoke introduced a proposal to deny county services to illegal immigrants. Lee McWhorter, who makes it his function to provide the comic relief at these meetings, suggested that we should check to see if we have any illegal immigrants before we waste the money paying the county attorney to write something up. Tommy LaFrance said we do, because the school board was forced to hire Spanish tutors for them last year. (I don't think that's exactly what he said, remember I'm just a citizen taking notes, and I write down things as I hear them, which is not necessarily exact. My reports are not minutes of the meetings.)


Lee pointed out that other counties who have done this have ended up paying lawyer money to defend themselves over it, and it would be a shame to spend our money that way if it's not really much of a problem.

The meeting wasn't really about this issue -- it was about the dogs at Brenda Jolly's place and about the passing of the Comprehensive Plan more. There were a lot of people there, which was a very good thing. But, although this was just a short comment at the very end, it got a big front page headline in the Page News.

Why? Because most probably, it's a very popular proposal. A lot of people will agree with it, and not many will oppose it. So Charlie Hoke, who made his constituents so angry at the district meeting over the Comprehensive Plan in his district, when he opposed the changes to the Comprehensive Plan about the flood plain -- made them so angry there was murmuring and aggravation so intense that some people started looking up the rules for how to impeach a Supervisor --- pulls himself out of the hot seat by:
1. voting unanimously with the rest of the Board FOR the changes to the Comprehensive Plan, and
2. introducing this illegal immigrants proposal which gets him front page news AND HIS PICTURE in the paper. Although the picture doesn't really look like him. Where's the little beard?

In any case, a lot of people will think "Charlie Hoke -- isn't he the guy who introduced that legislation for the county against illegal immigrants?" and will feel kindly toward him.

Honestly, I can't even think of an argument FOR providing county services to illegal immigrants. I think most people, if you tell them we are hiring special tutors in the schools and providing emergency services to people who came here illegally would say --- "Yo, Not with MY tax dollars, I hope".

I think Charlie came up with a winner, in terms of introducing something that most people will agree with. Although I surely hope we don't have to get involved with lawsuits over it.

Alice