Steve Whisler made this comment and it seemed like a good start to begin a Blog Thread about possible solutions, so I'm posting it as its own Blog. Post here ideas for solutions. We can feel confident that the Supervisors will either read this here or someone will print it out for them and show it to them, eventually. And as ideas develop, people who see the Supervisors or call them, or go to public meetings, can talk about it and tell them what they think.
"Steve Whisler said:"
"All of the political rhetoric going on about the very real landfill problem is beginning to sound like a broken record of Alvin and the Chipmunks Greatest Hit.”
Droning on about who did what and when doesn’t do a thing to solve the problem. As a practical matter it is old news. The landfill is what it is. To be sure, a string of bad decisions were made leaving the county in an increasingly troublesome situation. The reality is, as someone mentioned previously, the county has to put its trash somewhere.
There was also a suggestion that the county landfill should be shut down and the entire county’s trash be transported to Culpeper for disposal. What would be cost to haul and pay “tip fees” for disposing of the county’s trash in Culpeper? How and where would you stage the trash for transport to Culpeper? Also consider that there probably would be a bit more truck traffic involved. Would that be acceptable? I guess I just don’t see Battlecreek being shut down. I am not aware of any county that doesn’t have its own landfill.
However, the suggestion to carry the county’s trash elsewhere is perhaps a clue as to where we might look for answers. It is my understanding Fauquier County has a great deal of solid waste reduction and disposal capability they have acquired using state grant money. Could not Page County do the same? If the trash has to be staged at the landfill and then carted away, why not just process it right at the landfill? Many of the technology based solutions are held out as “green” or near “green.” Some of the processes produce energy related by-products and could save some operating costs as well. There may even be a few better paying jobs created.
There seem to be real solutions readily available that Page County hasn’t yet explored. It’s probably reasonable to assume there isn’t enough county staff to do anything significant any time soon. At least not without help!
Problems aren’t solved by wringing one’s hands and continuing to proclaim “We have a problem. Damn those who created it!” Rather than continuing to beat that poor old dead horse, would it not be a better use of time and energy to look for solutions? We can continue to run in circles and watch the landfill bleed or we can do something about it. The sooner, the better!
Moving forward in the near term is possible but doing so would require a few citizens to roll up their sleeves and do a little hard work. Are there any folks out there who might be willing to help find solutions to the problems that plague the landfill?
This all leads me to a question for Jim Turner and J.D. Cave, as well as for any other candidate for Supervisor, “If you are elected, what will you do to solve the existing problems associated with the landfill?”
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21 comments:
I think there are many reasons for this county to look seriously into "green" solutions to a lot of things. If we are looking for business, why not look for "green" business, and become a hub of a particular type of business? Some places are hubs for bio-engineering and genetics. Why can't one place be a hub for enviro-business?
It is very good to suggest finding solutions to problems at the landfill. But 2 days ago, it was Alice, who suggested that everybody-post the history here. Who did it, What did they do? So people was doing only what she suggested. So evidentally, Mr. Whisler does not agree with what Alice wanted people to do. And the important decisions that were made during the landfill negotiations are very relevant. Those bad decisions are still affecting the county today and that same person making those bad decisions wants to make county decisions again. And please don't criticize those of us who will not put our real names to this. We just witnessed the bashing on here of a Shenandoah resident who gave his identity. Most of us who are life-long residents will not associate our names on this site.
Dr. Kwiatkowski is a Page County resident.
I don't disagree with PCW has suggested people do. If it is important to them by all means go for it. I personally find it a waste of bandwith. I don't do politics so the constant harangue is just noise to me. I'm sorry if that offends you but it just isn't in my nature to dwell on the past. I would prefer to spend my time working on solutions to problems.I am a silly goose that way.
I think if there is truth to Karen's claim that the first $34MM of 'revenue' on a 'loss' producer goes to Marvin Bush, that means I, as a property owner in Page County, am still paying for nefarious deals that were cut long before I came. This makes the issue currently relevant. Susan Guest
Susan, no, nothing is still being paid to anyone else. The contract was purchased by the county in 2005. there is a long term debt of $13M, and that is what is still being paid. Plus new costs that are being generated by the operations.
We are not trying to debate Mr. Whisler, but he has written a lot here on this website, so he must think it is important.
He says he doesn't do politics.
How does he vote responsibly if he doesn't pay attention to issues and issues do come from the past actions of candidates running for offices.
We thought he seemed interested in the flood plain issues? Actually, that is politics. Because it is your elected and appointed officials making those decisions.
Since he doesn't do politics, he must not ever endorse any candidates in any form.
All or most of us are on the outside looking in, the supervisors are privy to info that we are not, which makes it harder to come to a good conclusion,I personally believe it would be a good idea to have a open county mtg. inviting everyones to share there ideas and to get citizen involvement, because I sure dont have all the answers and I doubt that anyone does, but collectively I believe we could generate some good ideas, and have a starting point.
I like that idea, to get some people to get together and debate it. A lot of times the county supervisors think nobody in the county wants to participate, mainly because nobody shows up at their meetings, pretty much. People only come if they think it directly impacts them right now. So the Supervisors generally have experience that says people won't show up when they hold meetings like that.
Take the By Right subdivision thing. Very few people came. What would get people to come out and participate?
Particularly, to all the Anons on here -- what would get you out to participate?
Only a "silly goose" would say such things as...."the landfill is what it is" or to call the Battlecreek Landfill a "string of bad decisions". I know we must all move forward and we must be weary of letting our power be taken away. We are still carrying the burden of a $30 million loss from an illegal "sweetheart" contract originally signed in April 1992 with Tellurian. We are weighed down from the lies told, the leaders who enriched themselves and each other at our expense, the broken laws and the insulting of every tax paying citizen of Page County. I'm sorry, the taste lingers in our mouth a long time. We shall move on and the "poor old dead horse" may be dead, but what he spawned is still alive and well in Page County. We dare not ever forget what they got away with. I don't think we are wringing our hands and cursing those who CREATED the problem. We are reminding our fellow citizens WHO created the problem. We only get so many chances so please vote wisely.
Donna . . .I'm confused. There was no $30 Million loss. There is a $13M loss that resulted from the contract buyout. The contract had to be bought out because it was NOT illegal. No leaders enriched themselves from it. This is not an endorsement of Allen Cubbage, or a praise of him. I am not taking sides. I am saying we need to know the facts, not the rumors.
The facts are: it's still not fixed. It's still costing more money. something still has to be done. The question to be considered is: what will the Board of Supervisors do to fix the problem that currently exists? And we have a chance to ask those that are running what their proposals and positions are.
Allen Cubbage is not running for the Board of Supervisors. Those running are;
J D Cave and Jim Turner, District 3, on the Speak Out show tomorrow.
Gerald Cubbage and Raymond Kite, District 4, Sept 21
John Rust and Larry Sours, District 2, Sept 28
These are the people who need to be asked what to do to fix the problem that still exists.
Alice,
I sent you information on Allen Cubbage because it was you who first brought him up on the blog, asking for a history.
Do you believe that the things I sent you are rumors and not facts?
I asked you questions but you never answered them.
You want questions for the Supervisors right now, so when will the opportunity become available on the radio for the COR race?
You say that this is not an endorsement of Allen Cubbage, with remarks you made. Have you endorsed him in any other way?
Regarding the landfill, Mr. Turner welcomes citizen involvement. There was tremendous citizen involvement when the negotiations were taking place to increase the tonnage to 1500t a day and to make steeper and deeper cells.
The people did not say it was illegal, they just said they didn't want the landfill to increase.
My questions to Mr. Turner and Mr. Cave:
1. Do you remember the citizen involvement during the negotiations and amendments of the landfill contracts?
2. Do you remember how citizens questions and comments were limited?
3. Do you promise not to treat people in this manner if you become a Board of Supervisor?
Sarah, I'm sorry that I missed your questions. The Blog is moving quickly now, and we have someone from Page County visiting this website nearly every 36 minutes. I went back to look for them, but I couldn't find your name. Did you post as Anonymous or as Sarah? I will look again. There are significant facts that have been posted here, and I have even received copies of newspaper articles in the mail at my home, talking about things that happened when Allen Cubbage was Chairman of the Supervisors.
The Commissioners of Revenue will both be on the Speak Out show on October 26.
I have not endorsed any candidate EXCEPT Sheriff Daniel Presgraves. Page County Watch can not endorse any candidate at all. I personally, can have my own opinions, and at this time, I feel strongly that I must endorse Sheriff Presgraves. Why? Because after listening to both sides, I have to say that what I've seen has been good stuff. And what I've heard has been personal attacks, not solid facts. This is my opinion, as a citizen, not the opinion of Page County Watch, which must remain neutral. But since I'm doing the talking, I have to say that I do endorse Sheriff Presgraves. I do think he has done a very good job. I do think we would be hard pressed to find someone who could do as well. I have listened to all sides. I have met with many. I have tried and tried to find facts. And in the end, the weight of the evidence looks to me like Sheriff Daniel Presgraves has done a very good job, and regardless of what happens, he will have my personal vote.
Have I endorsed Allen Cubbage? No, I have not. But I do think that the landfill is a very complicated issue, and that it is probably not valid to hang it around his neck, as it has plenty of blame to pass around. And still some that is continuing.
I am listening to the complaints that when Allen Cubbage was Supervisor, he did not listen to the people. That's what I'm hearing. It doesn't compute with what I'm seeing, though, so I have to hold back on that.
I did not know there was tremendous citizen involvement regarding the landfill. Where did it all go? The current supervisors sit in an empty room, mostly, except for whomever is "up" for the night and their associated friends. Why did everybody go away?
Sarah, I will put your questions on the list for tomorrow. Please also call in 743-5167 if you can.
Alice
I posted under "This is very disturbing" on Wed. Sept. 5th, and Monday, Sept. 10th, under Sarah said.
I, also, posted under Tune In & Speak Out on Wed. Sept. 5th, also Sarah said.
I feel it is futile to try and explain any more facts to you. You asked for facts, but you don't even remember them. You just want to keep talking about rumors.
How can you not remember hearing about the thousands of signatures on petitions regarding the landfill? I was one of the ordinary citizens that signed them.
Perhaps Ms. Whitehead can tell you tomorrow of how upset Page County citizens were with all the trash that was coming into Page County.
And hopefully when you have available time, you can look at what I had to say on the above-mentioned blogs and actually make comparisons to see that they are true.
FACT: Tellurian Inc. pitched their deal to BOS November 1991.
FACT: Tellurian did not exist in November 1991.
FACT: Tellurian's $50 million dollar bid was submitted to the county Feb. 10, 1992.
FACT: Tellurian wasn't incorporated until Feb. 24, 1992.
FACT: Closed meeting July 16, 2002, approved expanding Battle Creek's airspace.
FACT: July 24, 2002 Allen Cubbage paid two mortages totaling $760,000.00.
FACT: Cubbage was a puppet among many.
FACT: Quote from the case of Bradley G. Pollack vs.National Waste Services of Virginia (Tellurian) "During the latter part of 1993 and most of 1994, five thousand tons or more per day often went into the Stanley landfill instead of the 250 tons per day reported on Tellurian's books. Between one and FORTY MILLION DOLLARS are therefore due to the County of Page in tipping fees alone." Tellurian was filling up Stanley Landfill as quickly as possible so they could open Battlecreek Landfill. In 1993 the DEQ had given Page County a variance to keep the Stanley landfill open indefinitely.
FACT: In 1993 Sheriff Presgraves (and I do like Danny as a person) refused to have his deputies turn away truckers engaged in excess dumping at Battlecreek, stating that he did not have the authority to enforce "environmental laws". Not true...the permit called for 250 tons a day. The law was being broken and our sheriff did nothing stating he had no "jurisdition".
Sarah in answer to your first 2 questions honestly I do not remember all of the perticulars, in answer to your 3rd question no I DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOVERMENT OR ANYONE TREATING OTHERS IN THIS MANNER, That is why I am running as an independent , so that I will owe my allegaince to the people and not the party leaders.
Sarah, I went back and found your posts, and I've realized that they are extremely relevant, not only to the COR race, but also to the Supervisors race. I am going to pull out the facts you posted and make them their own Blog post, named "ATTITUDE" and labeled SPEAK OUT and ELECTIONS so everyone can remember them and discuss them further.
Thanks to Donna and Sarah, for posting facts that we can all consider.
To those who would argue that Donna and Sarah "don't have it right", please post a counter argument, because we are getting to a point where these will stick in voters' minds. If you have a counter view . . . don't think that refusing to post or answer here is a strategy to make it go away, or "refuse to legitimize it".
I think it's getting fairly legitimate. Also, I thank everyone who posted facts, and it is my opinion that posting facts here will matter in the elections. Not posting personal attacks, but posting selected facts. Personal attacks will turn people off and away from your opinion, but showing facts will sway people toward your opinion. For This election, and for the one two years from now. Because it doesn't cost much to run an Internet blog, and this thing can keep going through the elections of 2009. So if you differ in your opinion about the facts that are posted, speak up. You're Drinking the Bath Water to think you can ignore this.
Alice
FELLOW CITIZENS. THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO PUT THE ISSUE OF WHAT THE COUNTY COMMITTED TO 4 YEARS AGO WHEN THE LANDFILL SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT WAS SIGNED BY BOTH PARTIES(DEBTOR IN POSSESSION AND PAGE COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS). SIMPLY REQUEST THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS PROVIDE THE CITIZENS A COPY OF THE COURT ORDERED AGREEMENT. LACKING THAT DOCUMENT THE RUNNING COMMENTARY ON WHO DID WHAT AND WHEN WILL CONTINUE TO DRAG ON FOREVER. AS TAXPAYERS OF THIS COUNTY WE HAVE A "RIGHT TO KNOW".PS: CUBBAGE AND MAYBERRY WERE NOT ON THE BOARD WHEN THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT WAS SIGNED.
Gary, thank you for posting. Mary Whitehead tells me she has a copy of the contract signed with Tellurian, and I will put in a FOIA request on Monday for both that, and for any court documents. I'll ask for electronic copies if they exist, but they probably don't. They will probably be too large to scan and post, but I will try to post them. If I can't post them, I'll excerpt them and anybody else who wants them can get them directly from the county for 25 cents a page.
I would also like it very much if someone could post some responses to Sarah's questions.
Again, thank you for signing your name.
Alice
Alice,
You asked for responses to Sarah's questions, while posting a reply to Garland Gibbs. Sarah was talking about the attitude of Cubbage. I would like to know if Garland Gibbs ever witnessed this attitude when he was a Page County School Board Member and Cubbage sat on the board. Thank you.
Folks, I have a copy of the settlement agreement from the court, and I will post the history that I found from my research and the main points of the settlement agreement on the main site under the topic Landfill.
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