Alert! Alert! WE can go to the Retreat! Page County Watch has learned that the Retreat is a public meeting! We are allowed to attend!
By George and By Jove . . . we WILL attend! In fact, we will attend with Bells on. And when you see our Bells, you will know what I mean.
So . . . mark your calendars. Page County Watch will post the date, the time, the location, and the directions to get there. And chances are . . . we will know before it's announced in the paper or posted on the website.
Current thinking: it's going to be mid-June, at Skyland, on a weekday, just one day from about 9 a.m. to 2 p.m.
PLAN to be there!
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18 comments:
How very deceitful of the Board to try to give the impression the public was excluded from the public meeting by characterizing it as a "retreat." The average citizen would infer they could not attend. Even if the average citizen understood they could attend, staging the private public meeting in the middle of a work day helps reduce the odds of anyone being present to eyeball the action.
Thanks Page County Watch!
How do you know they won't get a room that's too small for us to sit down? What if they don't let us in?
as I work rotating shifts there is a good chance I'll be able to be there, I think it is imperative as district 3 is not even being represented as all of these major decisions are being made just fyi I talked with shenandoah's police chief Pete Monteleone thursday and he is running for the sheriffs office, I think this is a plus for Page county.
as I work rotating shifts there is a good chance I'll be able to be there, I think it is imperative as district 3 is not even being represented as all of these major decisions are being made just fyi I talked with shenandoah's police chief Pete Monteleone thursday and he is running for the sheriffs office, I think this is a plus for Page county.
Jim, of all the county officials I've met, if I had to pick one I wasn't worried about as being corrupt, it would have been the Sheriff. The way these supervisors have been responding to us has been absolutely bizarre. They talk like people who have a specific agenda which they must follow, and regardless of facts, they're going to follow it.
So now we get all this "watch and see" stuff, and we don't know any facts. It's all rumor. Doesn't anybody out there know what's going on? It seems like everybody knows, but how can everybody know when nobody will say?
sometimes rabbits should not be followed...anyhow..I have talked with Dot D. on many occassions and do not find her frivolous or arbitrary in her actions. I am sure there was a reason she wanted to continue work on the Flood Ord. Please do us all a favor and be more careful about cursing people and their efforts. If you are indeed intellectuals work to promote a "better" outcome. If all of this work and research went in to working on committees and crafting purposeful speaches, you might be taken seriously. Instead i read this and feel there is animosity and disfunction from the very people who desire a voice in gov.
I read this often, but inaccurate quotes and meanness is not what I want to read, inform and entertain please. By the way, are others besides Republicans welcome at this meeting tonight? JCR
JCR, tonight's meeting is a "meet the Republican candidates" so that sounds like it's open to anybody.
Dot Donato did call (today) and say she wanted to work with us on tourism issues -- but that is not the flood plain ordinance. The flood plain ordinance is our means of getting insurance. A minimal ordinance that meets FEMA requirements is exactly what we need, if the objective and the goal is to be able to flexibly design initiatives in the county to do whatever is good for the citizens along the river. That minimal ordinance is exactly what is in place right now, and which citizens want retained.
Dot's action that night may have only been misguided, instead of mal intentioned, but by waiting until the public stopped coming in large numbers, and announcing it without putting it in the agenda, it came off as being sneaky. To open a discussion about tourism along the river, is not a discussion about the flood plain ordinance. The flood plain ordinance needs to be left at its minimum in order to that, just as it is now.
Sorry JCR, if the truth stings a bit, so be it. You would have to be on the receiving end of the impact of the floodplain ordinance and the duplicity that occurred the other night to fully understand. Obviously you are not. If, however, you would sincerely like to understand the whole story I would be glad to meet with you anywhere and anytime, eyeball to eyeball and explain it. Maybe then you will better understand what the word “meanness” really means. My number is in the phone book. I will look forward to your call but I won’t hold my breath.
By the way, a couple of weeks ago I offered to help Mr. Hoke, District 1, do the work to bring a gold standard solid waste disposal capability to this county. He has blown me off.
Steve, if you want to tell us more about bringing that capability to the county, why don't you write up a Blog about it and I'll post it? If you want to. It sounds interesting.
About as far as I got was to understand that there is some state-of-the-art technology available that will reduce the amount of solid waste that goes into the landfill to virtually nothing. It sounds like it could restore some of the county's sullied reputation regarding the landfill and be the centerpiece of of a green county. Apparently there is grant money available that will pay for the facility. Mr. Hoke was a little cryptic about the specifics and I am clueless about the technology. I told him I would be interested in learning more and that I would consider doing the work. The process can't be much different that acquiring an aircraft carrier or test facility.
Unfortunately, the whole floodplain idiocy from the retreat ruse to the most recent bad behavior at the Planning Commission has pretty much soured me on getting involved. Maybe once all of this bologna is laid to rest I'll reconsider and extend the offer again. In any event, I sure would not want to have anything to do with the usual suspects on the Planning Commission, not only because of their lack of integrity but because they seem to screw up everything they touch. Who knows what they might do to help, if you get my drift.
That sounds very interesting. It sounds like a good thing. It's giving me an idea.
Idea's roll around during the night and they emerge in the morning, so perhaps tomorrow this one will be better developed.
I must apologize to Mr. Hoke for a comment I made earlier. “He has blown me off” has a poor choice of words with a negative connotation that I did not intend. I did not mean to sound as if I was not treated with courtesy. I was. Sometimes blog chatter can be a little flippant and intent can be misinterpreted. What I meant to suggest is that there has been no further attempt to pursue the matter.
I also wonder where JCR got the idea PCW folks are “intellectuals.” I am sure the PCW folks are flattered but for the most part, they are just a group of average citizens who are working very hard to keep the Board of Supervisors from making another huge mistake that will simply be undone either in the courts or at the ballot box.
this is exactly whats wrong with the county goverment, people like steve whisler and many others bring experiance and great ideas to the table and they are never acted on , I don't believe there ever has been or ever will be anyone on the B.O.S. there knows everything that is why it is important to listen to resident and draw on others strengths and collectivley come to a better end result that truly is beneficial to the public
Jim Turner,
I just want to be clear that the idea for pursuing the gold-standard solid waste disposal facility was Mr. Hoke's.
Page County Watch stated, if I had to pick one I wasn't worried about as being corrupt, it would have been the Sheriff.
Ironic isn't it? Or maybe not. Some people fail because they are performing a task beyond their capabilites and education. They are easily manipulated and will often fall prey to a talented speaker or great sales person.
When a decision is so bad or so unpopular that it makes absolutely no sense to the average person, the only logic is to blame corruption or self gain. In some cases it is no more than mere being over your head in deep water and not knowing how to swim.
The sheriff on the other hand, knows or should know laws, rules, and regulations to detect, apprehend and prosecute criminal activity. That is his job. He has been trained in that role. If not, maybe he shouldn't be there either.
Page County Watch asked..Doesn't anybody out there know what's going on? It seems like everybody knows, but how can everybody know when nobody will say?
Many of people that challenge the supervisors, are retired, finacially established, and are not dependant on the Board to support their families. The Board of Supervisor have very little control over the people that dispute them or call them corrupt. They do not control confinement of inmates, visitation by family members, or possess the ability to fire Constitutional Officer employees. The Sheriff Does.
I assure you, Not everyone does know what is going on. That is the reason for many of the untrue rumors. However, it is likely that each of the many witnesses know a little piece of the puzzle.
The Deputies that have testified will likely only share information with their immediate families and most trusted friends. The inmates that have testified are likely to talk more freely, unless they are still confined.
Every deputy, past or present knows one thing. If you say anything negative about the sheriff, or oppose him, you will be fired. Unless you are in his tightest circle, his ability to fire without reason, is always held over your head, and has often been demonstrated by termination.
The deputies do not want to be a part of this investigation. Everyone of them would rather have a tooth pulled. They were drawn into this and were forced to testify under oath by federal subpoena.
Know this, every person that has gone to testify, have done so for potential knowledge of a crime, to support evidence or prosecution witnesses, and no other reason.
The special grand jury does not subpoena character references. They evaluate evidence, listen to testimony and determine if probable cause exist for an arrest/indictment, much like a local grand jury or magistrate, except there are 12-18 people making the call.
This has the recipe for a National level media event. There will be no shortage of surpised people.
In 1999 there was a split decision on who the law enforcment community supported. In 2003, you could hardly find a cop or deputy that did not support the sheriff. That is not the case today. Even with pressure to walk in parades, wear T-Shirts and post signs in their yards only a few deputies have done so, and no cops at all.
What has happened? The answer to that is something that witnesses are not willing to share yet.
If you need to know more than that, you may have to wait for the satellite trucks and swarm of media. But don't expect it to be quick.
Wow.
This sounds like a very difficult situation.
Wouldn't it be better to wait for the answer, though, instead of rumoring without saying anything concrete? If the rumors come out as rumors, with no facts behind them, right before an election, doesn't that make it seem like it was done in order to sway the election?
On the one hand, the people who say they know the facts, but don't want to tell the facts, are saying, "We can't say, but we don't want to let the people re-elect someone who thereafter will be proven guilty."
On the other hand, isn't our system about letting people BE innocent until proven guilty? If you spread rumors before the facts are out, doesn't that presume guilt, and sway an election over things that are not proven?
Or are you saying, "they are proven enough to the people who want to sway the election that it's worth doing". He's proven guilty in the eyes of the people who want to sway the election? Is that it?
This is a dilemma for me, inasmuch as I don't have any knowledge or information about the Sheriff beyond what any person who never gets involved with the Sheriff's department about anything would have. In other words -- most people. Most people don't have any contact with the Sheriff's office. So people who do have that contact would know better than I. But those people won't or can't talk, meaning all that is left is rumors and innuendo.
So should the rumors be out there without supporting details? Or should they just be kept completely quiet, rather than spread as unfounded rumors? I'm speaking from a "basis of democracy" theory, rather than from knowing anything specific about this Sheriff or this situation.
Don't we believe in innocent until proven guilty?
Alice
Innocent until proven guilty applies to only criminal charges and convictions. Not everything else in life. You earn your reputation by the way you conduct your life.
Granted some reputations or rumors are unfounded and can do harm. For most of the people we associate with, the trust and fear we have is based on reputation, not actual proof or personal knowledge.
Most cops and deputies are subject to a background check prior to employment. It doesn't take proof to keep him from being hired. It just takes too much suspicion. Too many red flags.
Are we convicting or making an employment decision.
Speaking of background checks on cops and deputies, the sheriff is a very big fan of the polygraph. Ask if he will sign a waiver of his rights under the Miranda Decision and submit to a video taped polygraph with a specific list of questions, based on the rumors and worded by a licensed polygrapher.
Alice, If I asked your friends about you, what would they say? Great person, great friend, hardworking, honest, involved in the community and would never be corrupt.
Do I require proof or do I accept thier oppinion of you. I accept that as your reputation.
If a child claimed that he was molested by a priest, but it was never proven would you sign your child up for day care.
Would you let your children go to never land for the weekend,with Michael Jackson he has never been convicted.
Lying and criminal activity often go hand in hand. Only the most moral an ethical criminals refuse to lie to cover up thier crimes.
Keep in mind it is not a rumor that there is an investigation going on. Fact, it is one going on. Some people have just shot the messenger for letting us know about it.
If you step in a brown pile, and it smells like crap, looks like crap and you still aren't for sure. If you want, go ahead try it, but If it taste like crap you might not want to swallow it. At that point I wouldn't wait for proof, I would just spit it out.
I will take your word for it, even if later turns out to be something else that stinks.
Anon, you're right. We are not convicting in an election. We are making an employment decision. That does change the standard for what is considered in the decision.
In a hiring decision, everything from whether or not the person making the decision feels hostile toward tattoos to how minty does the candidate's breath smell, is fair game in the decision process.
So I have to agree with you. . . it is fair game to consider the community reputation in all the aspects that the voter knows, when making a voting decision. It's not the same standard as a criminal court. Too many red flags is a criteria that people will think about long and hard.
It's going to come down to voters making their decision based on everything they know or have heard, given the extent of the credibility they each give to what they've heard.
I nearly have the technical portion of the new Page County Elections website ready. I still have to call each candidate and ask them what they want to put on their page. I hope I can get that done in the next two weeks.
Alice
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