This forum is full of stupidity, foolishness, wrong thinking, dumbheadedness, stubbornness, and all the rest of the things that regular people are. But please let's not grind the cigarette butts into the open wounds, too.
This election will be over in a few weeks. What topics would YOU, the citizens of Page County, like to see covered AFTER the elections, knowing that the newly elected officers will see the forums? What are the top issues in the county for our government to address?
Alice
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34 comments:
I would like to see updates on the new high school construction progress.
it seems you are asking for comment on how to improve your website/blog, and/or ideas to make
same, more constructive.
you should first limit access to your blog, to open minded, well informed, well educated, clear thinking, objective, positive, constructive, like minded citizens only.
you should filter out postings from stupid, foolish, wrong thinking, dumbheaded, stubborn, REGULAR people, who may not agree with you and your friends.
thank you,
offended in page county
Dear Offended . . .
I'm not sure what you're offended about.
Are you offended by what's posted here now? Or are you offended that I said regular people are, among other things, all of the above? I was just quoting what everybody complains about on the Blog, and repeating back what people have said about it.
I don't want to limit access to it. What good is it to have the five people that are well informed, well educated, etc, just talking to each other?
Democracy's not about the elite. It's about the whole shebang. One person, one vote, and all that.
Anyway, don't be offended by what I say. If I believed what I said, this forum wouldn't be here. I'm saying it to get a RISE outta people.
Alice
I love the blog, and find it to be a great forum, but in my opinion Alice doesn't totally "get it"...yes, sometimes the general public can be a bit dumb at times and make silly "uneducated" comments, especially when they don't have to reveal their identity...thus the nature of on-line forums...
I'll say it again, Alic go to a blog and examine how a "professional" blog monitor operates a forum...if you ineed care, it not, so be it..I feel as you blowing a good opporunity...
once again, check out
www.hburgnews.com
I think when it is all said and done with the stupid election, the topic of the Luray Study will be a good debate. Especially since 911 and all the school shootings. Luray Police Dept. had the means to respond to those type of situations, but thanks to the selected two of the council,Carroll Buracker, and the current sheriff, that safety net is gone. Its time to get it back, not only for Luray, perhaps county wide. It is needed to help protect our citizens, and our children. Luray Council made a big mistake when the abolished the K-9 Program and the Emergency Response Team. There is no justification to get rid of something that important at such a low cost. It can't be a money issue when the Town of Luray has a 3 million dollar surplus...
It can't be a money issue when the Town of Luray has a 3 million dollar surplus...
surplus....I don't think that word means, what you think it means.
The town my have 3 million in reserves, but it certainly doesn't have a 3 million dollar surplus.
yea, the Town has three million in "reserve" because it has made good financial decisions...period.
As far as the County...well, that's another story...I don't think the citizens of Page will ever have to be concerned with this sort of "problem"...
When you are 3 million dollars to the good, it does not matter what you call it. It is still 3 million dollars in the green. Were are talking about a few thousand dollars a year for better protection of our community and our children. I know the county has poor management when it comes to money. I don't think they will ever get out or the red. But as for Luray, it had the best protection and the most well trained officers in the county and provided more to the community than any other department at little to no cost. And now it is gone. Ray Charles can see that and he was blind and now he is dead. So the poster that said: (The town my have 3 million in reserves, but it certainly doesn't have a 3 million dollar surplus.) has no clue and must not have any children. I am a parent with a kid in school and I don't care what the cost is, they need us to protect them. I am a voter and a tax payer and I should have my say on how to spend my money. Those that are officals of a county or town needs to listen to the citizens and get their input on issues before they vote on those important issues. And it seems some of that trust in leadership is broken because of that stupid study that was done in Luray. What are we going to wait and do? Wait until something bad happens and then kick ourselves in the butt for not dealing with the issue beforehand? Did we not learn from 911 and all the shcool shootings?
I would like to see the new B.O.S. adress the fact that all people in Page county that has land in land use, they recieved a 34% decrease in there tax bills. I not talking about there house or buildings because that did increase but not the land in land use, I don't feel this is fair to all the other tax payers that just has a home and a small lot to have to absorb the lost revenue.
Land use was implemented by the State of VA in the 1970's. One of the benefits for Page County is to preserve our rural heritage, our agricultural community and tourism.
This tax is not an exempt tax. If this land should become market value, there will be additional taxes paid plus interest for a number of previous years that this land had been in land use.
I believe that most Page Co. citizens do not want to be developed like northern Va. Some of those areas don't even have land use values in existance because there is no open land. If you remove land use or alter it, you are putting Page Co. at risk of becoming another Northern VA.
I don't think anyone wants to see land use removed or altered. But many were wondering why the taxes on land use went down at a time when all other taxes went up. If they hadn't gone down on land use, if they had just stayed the same, it would have tremendously relieved the burden that was imposed on the non-land use people.
The question is: was it or was it not possible to keep the taxes on land use the same in this last ginormous tax hike?
If we are heading toward more increases in taxes next year and the next year and the next year, which we are if this Board keeps acting like it has in the past, how must burden can be added to those few who do NOT have land in land use? Basically, that's just all the people who have nothing but a simple lot and a house.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.
Yow! The above poster must be one of our current Supervisors.
For Alice's question.............
Was it or was it not possible to keep the taxes on land use the same in this last ginormous tax hike?
It was not possible, according to the law of Virginia. Your state legislators would have to make the change.
Anon, what part of the Virginia code or laws would cover questions like this? The reason I'm wondering, is because it was our supervisors who chose the tax rate. Is it not possible, since they are choosing tax rates, to choose other things that would make the application of taxation more equitable? Was there anything available to them that would have allowed them to reallocate the burden so that it would not have been shifted off the effective landowners and onto the essentially landless?
I'd like to find the Virginia laws that cover this, and also the Virginia law that defines the job of the Commissioner of Revenue. I have looked for it but I can't find anything that defines the duties of the C O R.
I do not know the answers to your above questions. I know it is the law because it has been in effect for so many years.
Also, has anyone noticed in recent years, just how many large homes have been going up. I do not understand how our local citizens have this kind of income to support such large homes.
Why doesn't someone ask our current commisioner of revenue about these land use questions, surely with 28 years of experiance he should be able to answer these questions off the top of his head.
Regarding the large homes that are being built here -- I suspect those are not our local citizens. They are the boomers moving in now that they have started to retire. Our population is growing in people over age 60, and the young people are leaving because there are no jobs.
Charlie has 28 years of experience, and he has answers off the top of his head. But sometimes when you do the same thing for 28 years, you go by what has been the answer for 28 years, as you have interpreted it for 28 years. Charlie has interpreted the job narrowly, as a person who just follows the direction of the Board. The question is whether Charlie is actually constrained to that, or whether he is responsible to be an active participant with the board. The constitution of Virginia says the Commissioner of Revenue is "responsible to the citizens" to "assess fairly." It does not say he is an employee of the Board, constrained to just do what they say.
Reducing the taxes on large landowners at a time when the un-landed took an extraordinary hit, is not fair. The question is: to what extent is Charlie responsible for that, and if you ask Charlie, he will say he is not responsible. So we need to ask the State instead, because this is the election question.
Maybe he's not responsible, but he's not the right person to ask to get the "official" answer. That's why I'm looking for the Virginia code to define it.
I need to have that answer before the Friday radio show, because otherwise it's just Allen says Vs Charlie says.
Wouldn't all these large homes be driving the market value up here in Page County? You can't blame people for wanting to move here. It is still rural and beautiful. I think Alice retired here for the same reason.
Yeah I think Charlie has been to lazy and uneducated because he should have and could have seen this if he wanted. Let's remember though he got a break not the average Page County Citizen. That is gonna hurt him whether he wins or loses.He's lost his credibility. This I know
Wouldn't all these large homes be driving the market value up here in Page County?
No
Supply vs demand, Econ 101
Some questions should be:
Why has property values gotten so high? Is the baby boomers to blame, also? Why has our market value increased so much in the last few years? I think we should blame this valley for being so attractive and desirable, MAKING the people move in here, causing prices to skyrock on homes. Let's see...who else can we blame? Should we blame God for creating all this beauty? AND,,
BLAME--BLAME--BLAME--That's all we hear if it is a person or something you want to see get blamed, BUT, it is EXCUSES-EXCUSES-EXCUSES if it is a person or something you want defended.
Maybe this would be a good lesson for all of us right now..........***WE COULD LEARN A LOT FROM CRAYONS...SOME ARE SHARP, SOME ARE PRETTY, AND SOME ARE DULL. SOME HAVE WEIRD NAMES, AND ALL ARE DIFFERENT COLORS, BUT THEY ALL HAVE TO LIVE IN THE SAME BOX.""
Maybe this will help clear the air as to whom had the responsibility. § 58.1-3236. Valuation of real estate under ordinance.
A. In valuing real estate for purposes of taxation by any county, city or town which has adopted an ordinance pursuant to this article, the commissioner of the revenue or duly appointed assessor shall consider only those indicia of value which such real estate has for agricultural, horticultural, forest or open space use, and real estate taxes for such jurisdiction shall be extended upon the value so determined. In addition to use of his personal knowledge, judgment and experience as to the value of real estate in agricultural, horticultural, forest or open space use, he shall, in arriving at the value of such land, consider available evidence of agricultural, horticultural, forest or open space capability, and the recommendations of value of such real estate as made by the State Land Evaluation Advisory Council.
Thanks, My Final. It's a start. When I read that, I read that the C o R is responsible to VALUE the land. The second part is the setting of the tax RATE. Now the problem we are considering arose because the Supervisors needed $4.6M to balance the budget. So first the land was re-valued by the Assessor the Board hired. The C o R should have been responsible to see that that assessor did the right thing by all citizens.
Putting aside the controversy over whether the assessments were correct, which Mark Belton says the state just calculated that they were 92.7% of market value.
But putting that issue aside, the next thing that caused the problem was that in order to get the $4.6M more, the Board reduced the tax RATE from .67 to something like .43, I can't remember exactly.
Now the value of Land Use land for some reason has not been assessed at double or triple, like the value of houses has. You multiply it by a lower number, and ZAP, those who have land in land use just got their taxes reduced.
WE started at a real estate tax of $6.7M. Then we reduced the tax on land use land, leaving some shortfall. Now we have to get the increase of $4.6M that we need PLUS we have to recover the loss from the reduction we just gave to all land use land. We add that loss to the $4.6M, and we spread it over the remaining property owners, just on their houses.
The question for the Friday radio show is: to what extent was the salaried C o R responsible to at least EXPLAIN to the parttime Board that meets twice a month, and doesn't get a livable salary, that this would be the consequence of their action.
I attended all those Board meetings, and I know neither Campbell nor Belton explained that in any of those meetings.
Alice
I would like to know how many of the supervisers have land in land use
maybe this is why they didn't pay attention when all those people came to them and said this is wrong
To all of the above:
Please go to the Board of Supervisors website and look at their #1 vision....Page County is a highly desirable place to live, visit and do business based on:
**A quality of life focused on our agricultural heritage, natural resource preservation and rural character."
So don't you think they absolutely know that land use values are in place, helping to preserve our rural character? Just ask them.
Land use values have been in effect with every tax increase for perhaps the past 25 years, including the 37% real estate tax increase when Allen Cubbage was a supervisor. And in the year 2000, that also was a huge increase for everyone. Did he not know the consequences of that increase on the "unlanded"?
And how about the breaks that companies like KVK and Emco get?
Should they benefit more than the "unlanded"? Or could it be that some of the "unlanded" are employees at these places. Those places are actually giving our local people jobs. Our farms are giving local people jobs. It may not seem fair, but I don't think you would have land use values and breaks all over the country and for all of these years if it hadn't been proven to be beneficial. I think it would be good if we called breaks--incentives. And I think it would be better if people weren't labeled unlanded or whatever.
Anon, nobody's making any suggestion that there shouldn't be land use, or that it isn't a good thing. The only question here is why the land use taxes went DOWN from where they were, when everybody elses went UP to cover the schools. Why would they not at least have stayed the same so the Unlanded did not have to also cover theirs going down?
Okay, Alice I ask the question: Why did the land use taxes go down every other time there was a tax increase, to cover whatever was needed at that time, just like now to cover the schools?
You can ask that question of Allen Cubbage, who raised taxes, as well as Charlie Campbell, the commissioner.
Charlie has set back for 28 years he should have talked to the supervisors.
Carolyn says If we continue on the pace the BOS and Charlie CAmpbell ahs us on were all gonna be below the poverty level because we can't pay our taxes!
Here is the Virginia code about the CoR job description:
Various Code of Virginia sections outline the duties of the Commissioner of the
Revenue:
• Assess the proper license taxes for any person conducting a business;
• Annually ascertain and assess on January 1 the fair market value of all
property and income for all subjects of taxation in the locality;
• Prior to the date when the tax is due, provide in writing to the taxpayer: (i) a
description of property and amount of tax assessment; (ii) the valuation
method used; (iii) the due date for payment of taxes; and (iv) the procedure
available and records required to appeal the tax assessment.
• Render taxpayer assistance to the preparation of any return, schedule
convenient public places within the county or city to receive the state and local
tax returns, and advertise in local newspaper at least 30 days in advance of
the due date for tax returns the location of the Commissioner’s office and the
business hours of the office;
• Obtain a tax return from every individual and fiduciary within his jurisdiction
who is liable under the law to file a tax return and audit the tax returns as soon
as practicable and assess the amount of taxes which appears to be due;
• Within 2 banking days after the tax return is filed and received deliver the tax
payment to the Treasurer;
• Secure a tax return from every delinquent individual or fiduciary within his
jurisdiction. After 15 days make an estimate of income and report to the
Department of Taxation the delinquent taxes, penalties, and interest.
• Keep the original land book in the Commissioner’s office, deliver a copy of the
land book on September 1 each year to the Department of Taxation with the
tax rate on real property entered, and deliver a second copy of the land book
to the office of the Circuit Court Clerk; and
• County Commissioner to certify to a city Commissioner a list of all real estate
within the annexed territory as it appears in the land book.
This comes from the website
http://www.scb.state.va.us/policies.html
Thanks to the County Administration Office for providing this link.
Alice
Charlie has failed. Time for a change.Easy enough.
To the Anon who sent me the story and the phone number.
Thank you. I heard a different version of that story, and there were some things I was wondering about. You cleared up a question I had.
Alice
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